Is Rickson Gracie even relevant any more?

[pheonix5]

Bjj has changed quite a bit. Before it was all Gracie now it isn't. Rickson still has a lot of respect but it isn't the same Jiu Jitsu style he lived in today.

In respect to tournaments,yes. In respect to self defense and real fighting it is very relevent.

 

[lowdown1]

kids these days.......no respect

 

[lechien]

Kron, Roger and Xande don't use half the tournament techs used today and seem to be doing ok.

Rickson should release some DVD or books. Even if it is not for sport, it is still valuable.

 

[Spoonman7]

Of course he is still relevant, as a competitor, obviously not, but his understanding and knowledge are likely second to none. There is a reason that even at $300 per person, his seminars sell out quickly and often.

 

[Ninjamurf]

I always wonder why there are no relevant BBs under Rickson. If he has got the magic tricks he surely would have taught some people. And Kron doesn't count, he's really good but by no means above everybody else. And he has been doing this for much longer than 99% of people including world champions. The lack of successful students (in BJJ or MMA) makes me wonder if Rickson is really what most of us believe of him (like invisible JJ, technique beyond anything else).

Love this. "Kron doesn't count" Why? Because he's actually "relevant"? Or because he is "by no means above everybody else." How ridiculous is that statement? Kron is above 99.999999% of "everybody else." Add a couple 9's, take a couple away, whatever. The point is that Kron is one of THE BEST right now. Period. Here's an OLD partial listing from bjj.org...

6th Black Pedro Sauer
5th Black Oct

 

[artesuavesam]

Rickson is totally relevant. When you talk about jiu jitsu legends his name is always pretty much the first to be brought up.

 

[Half Boston Crab]

He's not "relevant" if you define relevant as being on the cutting edge of sport BJJ. That's a pretty lame definition of relevant in my opinion, though.

I agree. The only real "development" of BJJ I see today is people coming up with a lot of funky moves and guard variations, that work great in BJJ competition, but would likely get your head beaten in or smashed against the pavement in a street assault.

 

[Waldorf]

So basically, he cannot teach JJ for competition. His JJ is more for fighting.

I wasn't my intent to say that. I specullated he wasn't interested in doing what it takes to produce a top flight competition team which involves a way of teaching, but also a lot more then that. To be honest since I never trained that I can only speculate what he does or doesn't emphasis. The majority of what is publicly available on him and his comments do seem fight focused but it seems to:icon_surp me he wants to teach jiu jitsu that is perfect jiu jitsu.

 

[mj12]

No hespect my friend.

 

[NateTx4112]

So I was reading a baseball article on this Babe Ruth guy.

Don't hear much about him on ESPN. Is he relevant in baseball?

 

[KGB256]

You can't stand on a mat with Rodrigo Vaghi for more than 1 minute without learning something that will revolutionize your game.

And I say that because he's just a Rickson BB and not Rickson himself.

(As if there is such a thing a "just a Rickson BB.")

Agreed. Johnny did most of his training under Rickson (through either purple or brown belt, IIRC), and the depth of his knowledge is astounding.

Also, having had Rickson in our dojo for a seminar just this past fall, I can tell you he still has the power to present tough concepts in such a way that they seem simple. I find myself working moves and actively thinking about where I need connection to my opponent. It may be cliche, but that seminar changed my approach to jiu-jitsu.

For why he's not as involved anymore? He's in his 50s. He's retired from competing. The guy wants to enjoy his life. Part of that means not burning himself out by training like a competitor, so he can actually enjoy it when it comes time to work with Kron, or teach a seminar, or train for enjoyment. He said he spends a lot of his time surfing now. His generation has already done so much for jiu-jitsu, and Rickson, Rorion, and Royce were at the heart of it all. Jiu-jitsu is still a huge part of his life, but it's not the only thing his life is about.

 

[kuristus]

Agreed. Johnny did most of his training under Rickson (through either purple or brown belt, IIRC), and the depth of his knowledge is astounding.

I'm sorry...Johnny who? Genuinely curious.

 

[TheBJJProfessor]

I always wonder why there are no relevant BBs under Rickson. If he has got the magic tricks he surely would have taught some people. And Kron doesn't count, he's really good but by no means above everybody else. And he has been doing this for much longer than 99% of people including world champions. The lack of successful students (in BJJ or MMA) makes me wonder if Rickson is really what most of us believe of him (like invisible JJ, technique beyond anything else).

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.

Having trained with a Rickson black belt on multiple occasions, I can tell you that the whole invisible jiu jitsu is for real.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

True story, some guy got banned in a Mayberry thread for saying Steve Buscemi was a one hit wonder actor.

I'm jealous of you guys that have had a chance to attend one of his seminars. I hope I have the opportunity some day.

 

[luckyshot]

I agree. The only real "development" of BJJ I see today is people coming up with a lot of funky moves and guard variations, that work great in BJJ competition, but would likely get your head beaten in or smashed against the pavement in a street assault.

Truth. If a move looks pretty, I'm not interested. I have like 3 "pretty" moves in my arsenal. By and large, I want my jiu-jitsu to resemble a slaughterhouse, not a ballet stage.

 

[KGB256]

I'm sorry...Johnny who? Genuinely curious.

My instructor is Johnny Lee Smith. He began training under Rickson in the early 90s, and is currently a 3rd degree black belt under Carlos Machado. Johnny was already a national karate champion before he started training with Rickson. Some people may recognize him as "Tiger Claw" from the mid-90s kid's show WMAC Masters.

Johnny currently runs an academy called Triad Martial Arts with 3 locations in northern Alabama, and a law enforcement training program called SSGT which trains police throughout the southeastern US. One of his BJJ black belts (Tony Sullivan) was drafted by the IFL in 2007, but did not fight before the promotion closed down. Another of his black belts (Daniel O'Brien) won his division at the 2012 Atlanta Open, and won the brown belt Pans in 2011.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I seek out Rickson's students as instructors and usually learn critical details I don't get other places. Usually I focus on basics, and the techniques inside techniques that really make jiu jitsu work (the so-called invisible jiu jitsu.)

I may have drank the kool-aid, but I think there is something aobut getting as close to the source as possible.

I have had the same experience. Seeing how a Rickson student does a kimura, for instance, will make you slap your forehead knowing that you've been doing it wrong. Invisible jiu-jitsu is something you really have to experience to understand.

 

[bjh13]

What scares me about this thread is that some people really sound like they don't consider Rickson relevant. I was hoping this was just a troll post.

 

[georgwilhelm**]

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.

Having trained with a Rickson black belt on multiple occasions, I can tell you that the whole invisible jiu jitsu is for real.

I believe that. But still, why are those BBs not using their skills in competition or in MMA (like Rickson did - so one can't say that's beneath their dignity)? If a really gifted student had access to these techniques he should be able to use them successfully (and I don't think that just nobody wants to show his/her skills off). I don't doubt your experience and I actually also tend to believe that Rickson is really special but the lack of students of name makes me wonder.

 

[Oenomaus]

Yeah heard about that. Said he got some kind of crazy hold that snapped all four arms at once.

You speak of the quadruple armbar. Nasty technique if you ask me.