Is Rich Franklin a TOP 3 UFC MW of all time?

I am being realistic. That fight happened before Machida made a permanent move to MW. Changing weight classes can have a real effect. Just ask Rockhold, who doesn’t lose to guys like Jan :p

All those fighters you listed were top ten at the time believe it or not, as was Jmac when they fought. I’m not saying he is for sure better than Chris or Luke, but I can see the argument. I’m not even sure who I would put in the number 3 spot.

Ok so let's act as if Machida and Franklin didnt walk around about the same weight and as if they never fough each other...
Jan would need to cut off a limb to make 185 btw, let's keep it honest. dont expect him to make a run to the MW tittle as Machida did. Franklin aso lost to Cung Le late in his career anyways.

Still you refuse to be honest. You even throw the name of JMcDonald who was not really a consensus ranked fghter but even if he was, he was as much as Boestch, Phillipou or Jardine were for a brief, opponents who arent even top5 wins at MW for Rockhold.

Jacare, Machida, Weidman, Bisping and even Branch were more established, consensus top10 ranked MWs than anyone Franklin beat in the division.

Top3 from USA are Henderson, Weidman and Rockold. There is no argument about it except in what order. Behind them it get way more open, but Franklin isnt even lock for top 5 from USA. Pretending Franklin is a top3 MW of all time worlwide :eek::eek::eek: with Tanner and a green Okami as his best wins in the weightclass its silly, there is no reasonable argument for it
 
Top 3? Debatable. But top 5 for sure.
 
Ok so let's act as if Machida and Franklin didnt walk around about the same weight and as if they never fough each other...
Jan would need to cut off a limb to make 185 btw, let's keep it honest. dont expect him to make a run to the MW tittle as Machida did. Franklin aso lost to Cung Le late in his career anyways.

Still you refuse to be honest. You even throw the name of JMcDonald who was not really a consensus ranked fghter but even if he was, he was as much as Boestch, Phillipou or Jardine were for a brief, opponents who arent even top5 wins at MW for Rockhold.

Jacare, Machida, Weidman, Bisping and even Branch were more established, consensus top10 ranked MWs than anyone Franklin beat in the division.

Top3 from USA are Henderson, Weidman and Rockold. There is no argument about it except in what order. Behind them it get way more open, but Franklin isnt even lock for top 5 from USA. Pretending Franklin is a top3 MW of all time worlwide :eek::eek::eek: with Tanner and a green Okami as his best wins in the weightclass its silly, there is no reasonable argument for it

I don’t know why you are acting so angry. Machida was 2-1 at middleweight when Luke beat him, and you are calling him an established ranked MW when they fought. I guess our discussion is done since you cant control your temper. I don’t even have a dog in this race.

JMac was ranked btw, you can look it up. And you already used that fringe top ten comparison and yes that probably is where you would put jmac in this discussion. So ask yourself, if I named a guy like the 3 you named, why is it such a damned outrage to you? After all you were the first one to start listing fighters of that caliber

Franklin not a top 5 from the US? Gtfo
 
Last edited:
I don’t know why you are acting so angry. Machida was 1-1 at middleweight when Luke beat him, and you are calling him an established ranked MW when they fought. I guess our discussion is done since you jump ant control your temper. I don’t even have a dog in this race.

JMac was ranked btw, you can look it up. And you already used that fringe top ten comparison and yes that probably is where you would put jmac in this discussion. So ask yourself, if I named a guy like the 3 you named, why is it such a damned outrage to you?

Franklin not a top 5 from the US? Gtfo

Do not assume Im angry, english is not my first language. i just try to back up my stance making points with my limited writing skills

JMacdonald was indeed a fringe top10 at the time. He is easily a top5 win at MW for Franklin because of it. Rockhold's opponents with similar status are barely top10 wins for him.

That was my point and I dont kow if you really didnt get it or you are just being dishonest.

Machida when Luke fought him was ranked at the top at MW more unanimously - you can check rankings at the time - than any Rich's opponent, except maybe Tanner. So were Weidman, Jacare, Bisping and even Branch or Kennedy,

It's not even comparable, and you seem to get angry because I say Franklin is not a lock for top5 MW from USA, when you are pretending he is ¡top3 MW of al time out of any country!:eek:

I do think he is top5 MW ever from USA btw but Marquard, Sonnen or Shields have a stronger case to be above Franklin - especially based on quality wins at 185 - than Franklin has of being above Rockhold, Weidman or Henderson with his 8-3 record at MW best wins Tanner and a raw Okami.
Let alone Top3 MW of all time worlwide my lord. Im not angry, more like perplexed xD
 
Last edited:
Do you always take everything so literally? Silva got owned all four rounds he shared a locked cage with Weidman but yes Silva landed three solid leg kicks.
First fight was fairly competitive until the knockout imo .... Weidman fought well
 
Maybe I'm not saying my point clear enough because people aren't understanding it. It's simply this:

You can't have one set of criteria for Matt Hughes and another totally different set for Rich Franklin.

Yes undoubtedly Hughes' resume' is better, but he has very weak competition title defenses and didn't run into the guillotine buzzsaw of Anderson Silva as quickly as Franklin did.

So do you guys really think Matt Hughes would beat Jon Fitch or prime Hendricks or Woodley, or Usman, or even Wonderboy/Covington? Because that's exactly what the other guy did comparing Franklin to Weidman/Rockhold, now we're comparing different generations. I mean I guess I'd put Weidman over Franklin in pure resume' but it's close. Rockhold? Zero UFC title defenses, a defense over Keith Jardine lmao? Yeah this is what I'm talking about.

Strikeforce's MW wasn't better than the UFCs. Yes it had some good fighters, but let's not revise history.

The point is, yes obviously Hughes has a better resume' I never denied that, but if we place the same standards we are on Franklin to Hughes, then is Hughes really 2nd best all time at WW? Why? Because he defended the belt against mostly bums and LWs outside of Carlos Newton, who was good at the time but fell off pretty quickly and wasn't even that good. No one calls Carlos Newton an all-time great, he's not.

I just think Franklin is shit on for no reason and underrated at this point. Is is the best talented MW ever? No. But i think he's arguably top 3 all-time especially if we're going to use a consistent, honest "rule set" here, the same one we're using for Hughes apparently.

As of right now Franklin has the 3rd most title defenses in MW title history. Only behind Silva and Weidman. I think he has some good wins and names on his resume' beyond that as well, and he simply ran into Silva. Would I put him 3rd all-time? I'd still probably put Henderson there, and Izzy might take that spot extremely soon, but I think he has a case is all that I'm saying.


Perfectly stated.

I'll add that Franklin might not do great vs today's MWs ... but Hughes would do worst imo vs today's WWs.

Franklin was far more well rounded and Franklin would kill Hughes in a straight up fight vs each other.
 
I don't think it's fair to Hughes to compare him to Franklin. Franklin was a great fighter in his prime, but Hughes is one of the most accomplished. Ever.

20200802-223726.jpg


http://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/
GSP would be at the top of a competition based on points lol. What does this chart even mean...and how does GSP have nearly twice as many points as Anderson and Fedor?
 
Perfectly stated.

I'll add that Franklin might not do great vs today's MWs ... but Hughes would do worst imo vs today's WWs.

Franklin was far more well rounded and Franklin would kill Hughes in a straight up fight vs each other.

The criteria is the same for both Hughes and Franklin: quality wins at the time.

Not fantasy match-ups vs fighters from a decade later.

Hughes beat many WWs who were established top ranked WWs at the time. He did so in dominant fashion / finish.

Franklin didn't, his highest ranked win was Evan Tanner.

So let's not revisit history, Hughes was regarded as a much better fighter in his weight class among his peers. He earned such credit in the cage fighting the best guys his size at the time. Much more so than Franklin did. Period.

Anything else is playing imaginary match-ups
 
No way. Franklin was a product of the UFC's marketing. Great guy and all but doesn't have any real quality wins at MW.
 
I dont agree that either fight was competitive. Weidman landed some hard GnP and had 2 submission attempts in round 1.
I don’t recall any significant gnp and the sub wasn’t close ... still a clear Weidman round
 
No way. Franklin was a product of the UFC's marketing. Great guy and all but doesn't have any real quality wins at MW.

I think despite his lack of many quality wins at MW - Tanner and Okami had a solid case for top10 wins at the time - Franklin could still have a place in the top10-15 best MWs ever but yeah, he is crazy overrated in Sherdog and UFC marketing had lot to do with it.

People in this thread pretend he is #3 MW of all time...
 
I don’t recall any significant gnp and the sub wasn’t close ... still a clear Weidman round
You're like one of the very, very few reasonable Anderson Silva fans left, so you have to excuse everyone for jumping the gun on you. We are used to dealing with complete retardation of the highest levels.

There are Anderson fans that will fight to the death about a couple leg kicks to start the second round. It's their way of discrediting the knock out, like Weidman wasn't handily winning. . "The tide was turning" is about the only thing they cling to, even though both second rounds lasted barely over a minute before Silva went down, so realistically we can't discern much.
 
I think despite his lack of many quality wins at MW - Tanner and Okami had a solid case for top10 wins at the time - Franklin could still have a place in the top10-15 best MWs ever but yeah, he is crazy overrated in Sherdog and UFC marketing had lot to do with it.

People in this thread pretend he is #3 MW of all time...
I think it's partially because, during his reign, Franklin never got to fight any MW to give him a notch on his belt. 185 was bare and the first real contender he got was Anderson Silva. Yikes.

The real question is, let's assume Rich got to fight the list of guys Silva fought. How far into it before he loses? I know he fought Hendo to a split decision, but other than him, he could have made a decent run.

Still, he doesn't stack up to some MW 2015+.
 
I think it's partially because, during his reign, Franklin never got to fight any MW to give him a notch on his belt. 185 was bare and the first real contender he got was Anderson Silva. Yikes.

The real question is, let's assume Rich got to fight the list of guys Silva fought. How far into it before he loses? I know he fought Hendo to a split decision, but other than him, he could have made a decent run.

Still, he doesn't stack up to some MW 2015+.

Or even prior to 2015, man.

Let's be real, Belfort and Machida - both from Franklin's generation - are MW sized fighters who walked around about the same as Rich. If they were fghting are LHW or even HW because they were getting better money is another story. There was no promotion willing to make an American posterboy out of them, as UFC did with Franklin. They both eventually did a MW tittle run.

Belfort and Machida would beat Franklin at any point at any weight, as they actually did when got the chance in not very competitive fights

His fight with young Okami was extremely close. I defnitely can see Okami in his prime - with much improved wrestling and standup - getting a decision over Rich.

Marquardt remained top ranked for more than a decade and certainly holds more notable wins at MW than Rich. He was smaller though and not sure he could beat Franklin

UFC didnt even really invested on Bustamante and Lindland - former UFC champions - as contenders for Franklin...

Griffin and Henderson already beat him, although in very competitive fights and I actually think these quality losses speak about Franklin as much if not more than his wins, in a positive way

Weidman, Rockhold, Jacare and Mousasi that came later I certainly think surpassed Franklin's accomplishments. Bisping after his late career championship run I would say did as well, not until that point though
 
Last edited:
I don’t recall any significant gnp and the sub wasn’t close ... still a clear Weidman round
Watch the fight again. Anderson's head bounces off the canvas from GnP and there were 2 submission attempts in round 1.
 
Back
Top