Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SuperSuperRambo, Sep 7, 2010.
Rhadi Ferguson sure seems to think so.
You know i find the whol questioning of people belts on this forum kind of ridiculous. I understand many on here train and find each belt to be a huge accomplishment and you look at how long it took yourself and your coaches to reach that level.
But these guys, Randy, Barnett, Evans etc... are professional athletes who train with the best trainers in the world on a daily basis.
I think it is ludicrous to think that a majority of guys in the UFC are not at a black belt level.
Some people on here get just as upset when a fighter who isn't know for subs or guard work gets their black belt as they are when Spencer Pratt gets his.
In all fairness, I don't think I've ever heard someone on this forum say that Couture and Barnett are not black belt level. Randy has been training forever, and Barnett has subbed black belts in competition. But in all fairness, bjj is an art that emphasizes the guard, so a black belt should ideally have an awesome bottom game as well as top.
At first I was just gonna come on this thread and be like "NO," but then I saw that you posted it, Rambo.
I dunno, it's an interesting argument, and I'd definitely say that Couture IS black belt level (Barnett too maybe, though if the man's ever swept someone I'd be shocked).
I remember when Rogan said Hughes has, essentially, black belt level jiu jitsu and I just remember yelling at the screen and shit. He definitely can beat jiu jitsu blackbelts in MMA (goes without saying) and maybe even no-gi, but if Hughes went to the Mundials, I don't think he'd do fantastically. He'd do alright, but not great (I'm aware not all BBs do Mundials, but you know what my thesis is here). More importantly, I don't know if being able to beat jiu jitsu BBs makes you a jiu jitsu blackbelt.
As for Rashad? I dunno bro. Never seen that guy do anything I'd call jiu jitsu. I'll watch the vid again.
Rashad is never on his back so we never get to see him off of it. Rashad top game isn't great but i think he does that so he can keep himself from getting swept. Nate's bottom game looked non existent vs sonnen and hes a black belt. Rashad is an awesome wrestler, why would he risk losing position doing bjj when he could pound a guy out.
I just find it hard to believe that these guys don't work and understand the guard or sweeps very well.
I mean even if they don't utilize it in thier fights they have to know it well enough to shut down the guards of worldclass competition.
I have wrestled and coached wrestling for a long time. Now I am not good and don't do tilts, seep singles etc.. but I had to understand those moves to stop them and I can teach them.
I just find it hard that Randy could sit in Jacares guard and survive without having a very good understanding of it.
i'm damn sure that he's definitely black. discuss.
these guys are phenoms in the game. they are competing against the best of the best in the purest form of combat sport there is today..
if you think about BJJ as an art that is wrapped around self defense and grappling not pointless kata's like other TMA these guys who compete at the level they do are all black belt worthy.
i would like to think BJJ is about more than just the sport side grappling but i don't think people can see past that anymore...
Yeah but some things lead me to question
no wai dude, I gotta side with all the douchebag two yr blue belt sherdoggers who don't think Rashad's jits is that good. plus he doesn't wear a gi!!!!!
What makes you think Rashad doesn't know how to use the GI or have a good guard that fairs well against other blackbelts while wearing a GI? What evidence do you have for him not knowing the GI or guard work?
There's a difference between being able to survive in the guard and being able to use the level of guard you can survive in. The former is easier than the latter.
okay, same page so far...
and basketball is a game that emphasizes the shot. but Shaq was a dunking machine who couldn't buy a free throw.
just because he doesn't dribble, shoot or pass well doesn't mean he's not a great basketball player because he's soooo goood at other aspects of the game he is always going to be viewed as an incredible basketball player and hall of famer.
It's comparing apples and oranges. To be a bjj black belt most would say that you need to have a really good guard. It doesn't need to be your game, you can focus on top position, but the guard has to be there. The guard and positional hierarchy is at the core of what differentiates bjj from other grappling arts.
To be a pro basketball player "you need" to have a really good shot. Unless your awesome at other parts of the game, then you don't.
I think the analogy applies.
I don't think it does. We're talking about the requirements to achieve a formal rank. Basketball and bjj are not the same.
Your analogy would be more like this. If we compare basketball to grappling and make an analogy of the skills, you would say that Shaq is a top notch submission grappler but not a black belt in bjj because he lacks something that is a core of that style.
For example, you can be a hall of fame level grappler (if there was such a thing). Maybe you have an incredible top game, and you can pass, and submit. And your guard sucks. You are one of the best grapplers in the world, and better at grappling than most bjj black belts. But you're not a bjj black belt because you're missing an essential component of that style. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not intended as an insult.
That's why the comparison doesn't work.
I disagree, because having a bjj black belt is about more than just being competitive in an MMA match with a black belt.
After all, I'm sure most all-American wrestlers would torch your average black belt judoka at grappling. Should they be given a black belt then? There's more to the art than just being competitive within a narrow focus.
BJJ is the art of fighting your way out of bad situations. If you are bad fighting off your back, you aren't good at BJJ. You may still be an incredible grappler, and an awesome MMA fighter, but you aren't a BJJ black belt in my book.
Zankou, you disagree with who? Me? Fourfif? Rhadi Ferguson?
My position on the video I posted is that I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I've never seen much of Rashad's grappling besides his wrestling in MMA, and that's not necessarily indicative of what he's capable of, because there are tactical decisions you make in a fight. Likewise I've never seen him roll in the gym, and I've never spoken to anyone who has trained with him. On the other hand I know Rhadi Ferguson is a top notch grappler, and who am I to say he's wrong?
he might be at bb LEVEL, but if he had never ever put on a gi, he cannot be a bbelt.
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