Is punching power the strangest, most unexplained phenomena in sports?

It is definitely an interesting subject. I believe it strictly has to do with not seeing the punch coming and where the punch lands. Most times I've dropped, hurt, or knocked out somebody, it was with shots that I wasn't necessarily trying to throw hard. At the same time, I've tried to destroy certain people and really put everything into my punches, and I'll feel how hard the shot connected on my hand, but the opponent can take it fairly well.

Same with being punched, I've boxed guys who will throw everything into their shots and I see them coming, and while they may be thudding they don't necessarily hurt me. At the same time, I've been hit by a really good jab I didn't see that jarred my head petty good.

Look at Deontay Wilder vs Szpilka I think was his name, He was connecting with right hands all night and couldn't hurt him. Then all of the sudden he hit him with one he didn't even put everything into and knocked him cold.
 
lennox lewis said the same thing, that mentality plays into it, that you could land a really good punch and nothing would happen and then land a weak punch and a guy would collapse.
 
Hearns was always with steward, he boxed as an ammie, only had 11 kayoes, then he turned pro and changed his game up until the middle rounds of the first leonard fight when the roles were reversed. Steward explained Hearn's power by saying that the fist is totally relaxed all throughout delivery but clenched like a piece of steel right at the moment of impact.


For his pro career? I'm definitely admitting I just read hearn's wiki a while back, but someone wrote that steward turned hearn's from a feather fisted amateur into a puncher. Did steward train him as an amateur? Honestly just wondering.
 
Force = mass x acceleration.

What if the fist isn't tight? Same mass, same acceleration, not as powerful a delivery. Seems hardness and rigidity play a role in punching power, too.

What you wrote about force is true. But it's not the entire story. Seems like at least force and hardness both play a role. I'd assume there's more than that as well.
 
Imagine (2) spheres about the size of a softball. Ball "A" is rubber with a 1" steel core in the center. Ball "B" is steel but hallow in the middle. So both balls have the same circumference as well as mass. They are both dropped out of a plane at the same altitude. They have the same geometry so the wind resistance will be equal, therefore the rate of acceleration due to gravity will be equal. Which ball would you rather take a hit from? If the potential for damage is based purely on F=ma then it should not matter.

But the force equation, alone, does not account for a materials ability to absorb energy or its hardness. This is why Emanuel Stewart told Tommy Hearns (as mentioned by mozfonky) to keep his hand loose until right before impact. He wanted to maximize the punches velocity (loose fist) while also maximizing the hardness of the fist at impact. Making impact with a weak fist and absorbing more of the energy of the punch probably accounts for some boxers hand problems, as well.
 
For his pro career? I'm definitely admitting I just read hearn's wiki a while back, but someone wrote that steward turned hearn's from a feather fisted amateur into a puncher. Did steward train him as an amateur? Honestly just wondering.
Steward was with hearns since the beginning and except for a period, was with him at the end of his career. It's hard to say how much input a guy had, you know, most of the time, fighters teach themselves more than anyone else ever will but of course if someone makes good, the trainer takes credit. However, i'm sure hearns was told and understood that the pros were a different game. Still, it's kind of unusual for that kind of disparity between ammie and pro, so maybe steward did change him up.
 
What if the fist isn't tight? Same mass, same acceleration, not as powerful a delivery. Seems hardness and rigidity play a role in punching power, too.

What you wrote about force is true. But it's not the entire story. Seems like at least force and hardness both play a role. I'd assume there's more than that as well.

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Force = mass x acceleration.

+ punch techniche and punch placement.

There really isnt anithing unexplained its just there are to many variables to be able to make simple predictions.

It would be like tryng to predict wich car is faster in a drag race just based on spoilers and the number of doors of the car while ignoring the engine power, car weight, gear ratios, if its FWD, AWD, RWD, mods , etc.
 
I think a lot of people underestimate bone density and physical muscle structure of fighters.

There are different sorts of body types that have different sort of power.

You have thudding power like a dan Henderson or George foreman, then also have explosive punchers like rumble Johnson or Roy Jones Jr.

What you will find is when age catches up with the athletic explosive fighters their power usually diminishes, whereas heavy handed hitters like dan Henderson or George foreman you could argue get harder hitting as they age.

Also you will find fighters who traditionally heavy handed have to pace themselves more because of the energy it takes to hit like they do.

If somebody could provide an example of a heavy hitting fighter with high output and good cardio? Unlikely.

Same thing goes for accumulative damage fighters like the Diaz brothers or Neil Magny. They are never going to be one punch KO artists but in the same breath they aren't going to gas anytime soon, even after throwing hundreds of punches.

Meh bro science but it's how I see it.
 
If you ever been in a sport where your technique is the best judge of your success then you would understand better.

I threw javelin in college at the top level. Not all that different below the arm on technique. It's in the feet and most importantly the hips.

If course other natural factors have a play. But technique is number one.
Well you'd think that perfect technique would even things out and then the physiological differences would be the "natural gift" that separates the born punchers.
 
I think the receiver of the punch has more influence on the outcome than the puncher. Some guys can get punched all day and be fine, because they see all the punches coming. They've been in hard sparring sessions and are used to being punched. Chin genetics also play a factor. Confidence is at play as well. A nervous fighter won't be able to take a punch as well as a fighter who already understands they are going to being punched and is mentally in the fight.

Obviously every fighter has his limits and can only be hit so many times. And the one throwing the punch is definitely a part of the equation. I just feel like whenever these conversations come up, people are forgetting that half(more than imo.) of the variables are in the hands of the one being punched.
Those are the guys for the iron chin thread...= )
 
Steward was with hearns since the beginning and except for a period, was with him at the end of his career. It's hard to say how much input a guy had, you know, most of the time, fighters teach themselves more than anyone else ever will but of course if someone makes good, the trainer takes credit. However, i'm sure hearns was told and understood that the pros were a different game. Still, it's kind of unusual for that kind of disparity between ammie and pro, so maybe steward did change him up.
I think I remember the broadcasters saying the same thing about Trinidad as an amateur.
 
Another large variable involved is body type of fighters. Two fighters who weigh exactly the same, will punch much differently due to allocation of body weight. Fighter A may have more muscle mass in the legs while fighter B may have more mass in the upper body. There's also different muscle density and the type of training that helped form the fast and slow twitch muscle fibers.
 
Force = mass x acceleration.

Acceleration means nothing in that context it's speed x mass. A car/fist could accelerate nothing and it would hurt you badly if it's fast enough.
Often fighters who get called slow only move slowly but have good handspeed when punching. And then there are those who are a mystery.
I guess the mystery comes from delivering the mass/no power being lost during the punch (rigid fist and arm, strong connective tissues, connecting properly and everything).
Also putting as much weight into the punch as possible through technique and maybe body proportions
 
Another large variable involved is body type of fighters. Two fighters who weigh exactly the same, will punch much differently due to allocation of body weight. Fighter A may have more muscle mass in the legs while fighter B may have more mass in the upper body. There's also different muscle density and the type of training that helped form the fast and slow twitch muscle fibers.

I believe body types are also important.

For instance you have a guy like Hearns who was skinny but with very broad shoulders, meanwhile Tyson had narrow shoulders with huge legs.

So I'd say Tyson's power was more due strength and leverage meanwhile Hearns was powerful due to mechanics and physics.

Lots of factors.
 
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