Is Obama right or left wing?

[IGIT]

Obama helped to expand the military might of America but the thing he did better than bush is simply manage our troops. Bush was a blundering chimp in those regards.

There was a time his cronies said Iraq would cost 40 billion. Lol. Trillions later we couldn't do shit with thst country.

hi KONG-D'SNT-TAP,

the thing i liked about Mr. Obama's foreign policy is it actually reflected the will of the American people. i found that kind of a novel feature.

americans supported using drones militarily in most Pew Polls i've seen.

americans wanted a draw down on forces in both the Iraq and Afghani conflicts, and Obama followed through on both - though Afghanistan came after he authorized a surge that both Clinton, Gates and Petraeus pushed for.

americans didn't want to see America enter another prolonged conflict on the scale of our Afghani and Iraqi adventures, and we haven't.

americans didn't want to see boots on the ground. period. and Mr. Obama has been, if nothing else, very, very restrained in doing anything of the sort.

americans were tired of the "go it alone" mantra of the Bush years, so in many cases (Libya is a good example) the US armed forces worked in concert with a coalition.

etc, etc.

- IGIT

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

hi KONG-D'SNT-TAP,

the thing i liked about Mr. Obama's foreign policy is it actually reflected the will of the American people. i found that kind of a novel feature in his FP.

- IGIT

I think the American public doesn't care about war anymore. We're so conditioned to be apart of it it's like water off a ducks back. Obama did cement the bush legacy and even surrounded himself with the same people or like minded individuals.

But he did manage the troops better

 

[IGIT]

I think the American public doesn't care about war anymore. We're so conditioned to be apart of it it's like water off a ducks back. Obama did cement the bush legacy and even surrounded himself with the same people or like minded individuals.

But he did manage the troops better

hi ho Kong,

i expanded my post, to give more concrete examples to what i was alluding to.

- IGIT

 

[Anung Un Rama]

ahoy AUR,

you and i have had this conversation before, Anung. i don't equate anything Mr. Obama has done with the Reagan/Bush activities in Central America. to my way of thinking, its not even close.

- IGIT

IGIT,

I do recall that conversation, but not exactly how we left it. I think this was before Yemen started cooking with gas, yeah?
From a shear death tool perspective (directly associated w/ US), Ronnie and 41 were certainly worse than Obama.
From a geopolitical fallout perspective Obama is far worse: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen.... civilizations lost and MILLIONS displaced.

- AUR

 

[Anung Un Rama]

his dedication to drone wars, has probably saved lives, certainly american ones. one of those historical facts he wont get credit for.

His drone strikes have killed 9 unintended targets for every 1 intended target, and who is to say that those intended targets are any more guilty than the 60% of Gitmo hostages that were probably innocent. You know who will remember them, the families of the innocents killed by these missile strikes.

 

[seiger]

IGIT,

I do recall that conversation, but not exactly how we left it. I think this was before Yemen started cooking with gas, yeah?
From a shear death tool perspective (directly associated w/ US), Ronnie and 41 were certainly worse than Obama.
From a geopolitical fallout perspective Obama is far worse: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen.... civilizations lost and MILLIONS displaced.

- AUR

books have been written on this.

obama was in the middle, some good, some bad.

reagan and nixon were the worst of the worst.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

books have been written on this.

obama was in the middle, some good, some bad.

reagan and nixon were the worst of the worst.

Worse than W?

 

[seiger]

His drone strikes have killed 9 unintended targets for every 1 intended target, and who is to say that those intended targets are any more guilty than the 60% of Gitmo hostages that were probably innocent. You know who will remember them, the families of the innocents killed by these missile strikes.

im not a fan of drone strikes. on the other hand anyone who hates drone should probably aquaint themselves with civilian death totals before and after their use. full scale military intervention and occupation created conditions akin to hell on earth.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

im not a fan of drone strikes. on the other hand anyone who hates drone should probably aquaint themselves with civilian death totals before and after their use. full scale military intervention and occupation created conditions akin to hell on earth.

There is a third option.

 

[seiger]

Worse than W?

yeah, bush is 11th. ill make a thread on this at some point, but yeah, nixon and reagan are worst. which is a scary thought given bush got blamed for 1 million plus deaths. oh he got a break for AIDs related work.

100,000 to over 1million deaths by incompetence and ideological blindness in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars.

Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness on deregulation causing GreatRecession.

Mitigated by: Actions on AIDS in Africa saving or preventing the deaths of an unknown number, estimates from 200,000 to 5 million. These actions are themselves mitigated by the program's neglect of aid to gays, sex workers, and intravenous drug users.

 

[ripskater]

Obama is a leftist. Also a globalist for open borders. He loves Islam and wants to bring it here to America. But at the same time promotes homosexuality and transgenderism.

 

[gspieler]

I think his true idealogy leans slightly to the left, but due to practical reasons is for all intents and purposes, a centrist.

I consider him more or less neutral in terms of authoritarian vs libertarian.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

He is clearly a mix @Anung Un Rama has valid points.


With that said his promoting of diversity politics, race baiting, transgender and men in women's bathroom shit along with his appeasement of radical Islam all are common leftist talking points that you can find repeatedly voiced by liberals at the Huffington post.

The Huffington post agrees with about half the shit Obama does. Therefore he obviously is left leaning in some regards.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

yeah, bush is 11th. ill make a thread on this at some point, but yeah, nixon and reagan are worst. which is a scary thought given bush got blamed for 1 million plus deaths. oh he got a break for AIDs related work.

100,000 to over 1million deaths by incompetence and ideological blindness in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars.

Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness on deregulation causing GreatRecession.

Mitigated by: Actions on AIDS in Africa saving or preventing the deaths of an unknown number, estimates from 200,000 to 5 million. These actions are themselves mitigated by the program's neglect of aid to gays, sex workers, and intravenous drug users.

Wow. What is the name of this book or link to report; I've looked this stuff up and I didn't see anything close to 1 million deaths and trillions in damages and expenses coming out of the Reagan/Bush years.

 

[seiger]

Wow. What is the name of this book or link to report; I've looked this stuff up and I didn't see anything close to 1 million deaths and trillions in damages and expenses coming out of the Reagan/Bush years.

thats the other thing. doctors just did a study into deaths in iraq, afghan and pakistan, and they are estimating into millions. the book is obviously going to take license to speculate, as some of this is pure what if theory. but for nixon and reagan -

Nixon-

1. Deaths directly caused by him: 512,000 to 612,000.
   
   Direct responsibility for 500,000 to 600,000 in the US-directed Cambodian genocide, partial responsibility for 1 million to 1.75 million deaths by the Khmer Rouge genocide.
   
   Direct responsibility for at least 10,000 deaths by torture in the Phoenix Program.
   
   Direct responsibility for over 2,000 deaths in the overthrow of the Chilean government.
   
   Chemical warfare, perhaps 200,000 deaths by Agent Orange and hundreds of thousands of deaths by napalm in the US-Vietnam War.
   
   Partial responsibility for 1.86 million to 4.72 million. 500,000 to 1.5million deaths by ideological blindness or incompetence.
   
   Partial responsibility for 300,000 to 3 million deaths ignored in the Bengali genocide.
   
   Partial responsibility for 30,000 to 60,000 deaths in Operation Condor.
   
   500,000-1.5 million deaths by incompetence and ideological blindness in the US-Vietnam War.
   
   Pardoning mass murderer Lt. Calley. Mitigated by: Disarmament treaties with the USSR. Biological and chemical weapons ban. Trade with China leading to a somewhat less repressive Communist state. Continuing and expanding civil rights and anti-poverty programs begun by Lyndon Johnson.
   see more on Richard Nixon>
2. 2
   Ronald Reagan
   The Second Worst President in US History: Ronald Reagan
   
   Total deaths directly caused by him: 325,000.
   
   325,000 deaths by genocide in Guatemala, US sponsored Contra terrorism in Nicaragua, support for repression in El Salvador and Honduras, bombing El Salvador, and invasion of Grenada.
   
   Chemical warfare, Plan Colombia spraying of herbicide glyphosate, caused unknown number of Colombian and Ecuadoran deaths
   
   Partial responsibility for unknown number of other deaths.
   
   Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness and incompetence on the Cold War.
   
   Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness on deregulation and drug wars.
   
   Selling biological and chemical weapons material to Saddam Hussein.
   
   Mitigated by: Nothing, no humanitarian accomplishments.
   
   Uncertain factors: Reagan suffered from Alzheimer's his last two years in office. How much he understood or even remembered what was done in that time is unknown.

reagan probably caused a shit load of deaths by not reacting to HIV/AIDs faster.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

thats the other thing. doctors just did a study into deaths in iraq, afghan and pakistan, and they are estimating into millions. the book is obviously going to take license to speculate, as some of this is pure what if theory. but for nixon and reagan -

Nixon-

1. Deaths directly caused by him: 512,000 to 612,000.
   
   Direct responsibility for 500,000 to 600,000 in the US-directed Cambodian genocide, partial responsibility for 1 million to 1.75 million deaths by the Khmer Rouge genocide.
   
   Direct responsibility for at least 10,000 deaths by torture in the Phoenix Program.
   
   Direct responsibility for over 2,000 deaths in the overthrow of the Chilean government.
   
   Chemical warfare, perhaps 200,000 deaths by Agent Orange and hundreds of thousands of deaths by napalm in the US-Vietnam War.
   
   Partial responsibility for 1.86 million to 4.72 million. 500,000 to 1.5million deaths by ideological blindness or incompetence.
   
   Partial responsibility for 300,000 to 3 million deaths ignored in the Bengali genocide.
   
   Partial responsibility for 30,000 to 60,000 deaths in Operation Condor.
   
   500,000-1.5 million deaths by incompetence and ideological blindness in the US-Vietnam War.
   
   Pardoning mass murderer Lt. Calley. Mitigated by: Disarmament treaties with the USSR. Biological and chemical weapons ban. Trade with China leading to a somewhat less repressive Communist state. Continuing and expanding civil rights and anti-poverty programs begun by Lyndon Johnson.
   see more on Richard Nixon>
2. 2
   Ronald Reagan
   The Second Worst President in US History: Ronald Reagan
   
   Total deaths directly caused by him: 325,000.
   
   325,000 deaths by genocide in Guatemala, US sponsored Contra terrorism in Nicaragua, support for repression in El Salvador and Honduras, bombing El Salvador, and invasion of Grenada.
   
   Chemical warfare, Plan Colombia spraying of herbicide glyphosate, caused unknown number of Colombian and Ecuadoran deaths
   
   Partial responsibility for unknown number of other deaths.
   
   Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness and incompetence on the Cold War.
   
   Unknown number of deaths by ideological blindness on deregulation and drug wars.
   
   Selling biological and chemical weapons material to Saddam Hussein.
   
   Mitigated by: Nothing, no humanitarian accomplishments.
   
   Uncertain factors: Reagan suffered from Alzheimer's his last two years in office. How much he understood or even remembered what was done in that time is unknown.

reagan probably caused a shit load of deaths by not reacting to HIV/AIDs faster.

Nixon is tough to beat death toll-wise. I don't think most people even know about East Timor.
There is a lot of speculation on Reagan that if applied to W would have drop him down at least a spot.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

Arab spring was a neocon policy. It was started by Cheney, and then passed down to Obama and Clinton. Both sides supported Arab Spring for different reasons.

Neo cons wanted Saddam out because he was going to hurt the Petro-dollar and American economy by switching his oil sale currency to Euros.

Gaddafi wanted to do something similar. His vision was to create a gold based currency and only sell Libyan oil in it (again, hurting the American petro-dollar). Libya had one of the largest gold reserves in the world, gold which has made its way to the wealthy banks who financed Obama and Clinton campaigns over the years. But it did save the petro-dollar.

Syria stood in the way of a pipeline being built, for Qatar to Turkey. That's why Assad had to go.

When I look at the last 2-3 decades of US Presidents, they both worked towards same goals. They all followed the Chessboard blueprint laid out by guys like Brzezinski and Kissinger.

Obama tried to do it without using US troops, and while this did wonders for his image, it made the world a worse place. You still had boots on the ground fighting the Syrian army. Only they weren't American boots. They were jihadis waving black flags and carrying American heavy weapons.

And how well did that turn out for the world?

 

[IGIT]

IGIT,

I do recall that conversation, but not exactly how we left it. I think this was before Yemen started cooking with gas, yeah?
From a shear death tool perspective (directly associated w/ US), Ronnie and 41 were certainly worse than Obama.
From a geopolitical fallout perspective Obama is far worse: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen.... civilizations lost and MILLIONS displaced.

- AUR

hi AUR,

i gotta go for the night, but i disagree that Mr. Obama is worse than Mr. Reagan.

Iraq...Syria...Libya...Egypt...Yemen, are all separate cases. let me ask you, given the situation in the ME that Mr. Obama inherited, what would you like to have seen his adminstration do?

- IGIT

 

[Anung Un Rama]

hi AUR,

i gotta go for the night, but i disagree that Mr. Obama is worse than Mr. Reagan.

Iraq...Syria...Libya...Egypt...Yemen, are all separate cases. let me ask you, given the situation in the ME that Mr. Obama inherited, what would you like to have seen his adminstration do?

- IGIT

IGIT,

I respect your opinion on Reagan, I'm going to try and find that book @seiger was referring to. The numbers aren't adding up for me, nor are the catastrophic consequences as evident to me.
I'm going to take a knee on this until I do a little more in-depth reading on Reagan's FP.

As for what I would have done; I would have applied the Law of Holes.

Merry Christmas,
Anung Un Rama

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Cheers and merry Christmas. I've read other sources that have made the argument that the whole political system in USA is skewed to the right, and the American left is in fact right wing also.

http://noebie.net/tags/political-compass/

was reading this.

I agree, Obama is very close to Adolph Hitler.