Is Max Holloway > Prime B.J. Penn?

Fuck no. BJ penn is a hall of famer. Holloway aint even won a real belt yet. It could happen but jeez give it time. GSP surpassed Hughes by actually breaking his records. Dont you think this is a bit premature?
Nah, I think if prime BJ and current Holloway fought, Max would win. The game has evolved too much since BJ was the best.
 
Nah, I think if prime BJ and current Holloway fought, Max would win. The game has evolved too much since BJ was the best.
But he hasnt dont what BJ has done,he hasnt even gotten started yet. Making a thread like this? Youd have to wait till he's at least halfway done with his career at least?????? he could lose to aldo and never get another title shot.
 
I think a lot of people have a hard time separating greater from better. Greater can define a career as whole, or the impact of the fighter, where as better is straight up who would win in a fight. I have very little doubt that Max would beat BJ at any point of his career. I also have no doubts who would win between Chuck Liddell vs Rumble Johnson, but I still think of Chuck as being greater.
 
prime Bj wouldn't have won 2 belts if he was competing in the current rosters

And the current roster is loaded with guys that wouldn't have known where to begin if this was 15-20 years ago. They are so reliant on a gym already gilded with the infrastructure to tell them what to do. Second generation fighters that emerged around the time of the Fertita purchase had to trail blaze and figure things out on their own. MMA is so convenient now compared to back then, most of these guys simply don't have the independence and wherewithal to operate in that era. You can't anachronistically drop people into different eras without accepting what they would have been leaving behind from the present.

We all must realize this. Anything less would be uncivilized.
 
But he hasnt dont what BJ has done,he hasnt even gotten started yet. Making a thread like this? Youd have to wait till he's at least halfway done with his career at least?????? he could lose to aldo and never get another title shot.

TS is asking if Max would beat BJ at his best. Nothing wrong with thinking Max would win.
 
he absolutley has great potential...but he is just getting started> Lots of guys who did more than him allready,like Pettis..and Pettis will never be looked at in the same light as penn

To me I think the 155 roster that Pettis fought in is better than BJ's 155 pound roster. To summarize it for you:

Pettis' roster:
- Bendo
- Cowboy
- RDA
- Gilbert
- Edson Barboza

BJ's roster:
- Sean Sherk
- Jens Pulver
- KenFlo
- Diego Sanchez
- Joe Stevenson
 
I don't like comparing eras - not sure its fair. Prime BJ was of a different era. Both are very good.
 
BJ is overrated as fuck, his fangirls always overrate his actual skills. Holloway would beat the shit out any version of BJ.
 
Would be a fun fight. BJ had very good boxing, but imo he isn't winning the stand-up against Max, who's bigger & taller than him despite fighting at a lower weight, and is deadly from mid-range. Max has filled out his frame and is now strong enough to clinch & grapple with Lamas, but he'd be out-skilled on the ground vs BJ.

So to answer - If Penn took him down like he did with Fitch, he'd need to finish to win. If it stays on the feet or Max escapes to his feet Max wins on points. Very hard to finish BJ in a stand-up fight.

On the ground, BJ all day, Smolka said he and Max had problems with BJ's bjj.

Stand up, I'd favor Max for the same reasons, but I could see Max stopping BJ with body shots.
 
But he hasnt dont what BJ has done,he hasnt even gotten started yet. Making a thread like this? Youd have to wait till he's at least halfway done with his career at least?????? he could lose to aldo and never get another title shot.
Well, okay, it depends on the question. If we're comparing legacies then BJ wins hands down. But I think TS was alluding to who is better, and the answer to that would be Max.
 
I don't like this notion that the current top of the division is better than the past because they are better right now.

Remember when people were claiming that Pettis was the LW GOAT and Penn couldn't hang with him?

Now Pettis isn't even mentioned in the All-Time talks.
 
Penn couldn't compete against these new breed fighters, completely different to the likes of GSP and Lyoto Machida.
 
It's questions like these that make me embarrassed to be an MMA fan. This is like asking whether Odell Beckham is better than Jerry Rice. Nothing against Max, but at least try to think critically.
 
I think a lot of people have a hard time separating greater from better. Greater can define a career as whole, or the impact of the fighter, where as better is straight up who would win in a fight. I have very little doubt that Max would beat BJ at any point of his career. I also have no doubts who would win between Chuck Liddell vs Rumble Johnson, but I still think of Chuck as being greater.

Prime Chuck hits a counter on Rumble and puts him out.
 
Imagine what a prime Penn would do to him on the ground. It'd be a beatdown.
 
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