Is Lloyd Irvin the best BJJ coach ever ?

snoop dogg said:
okay so he should compete for the next 2 and a half years at brown belt destroying everyone?
yes actually. he is allowed to go to black, he just cant compete at ibjjf tourneys. he can still do Naga, GQ, and abu dhabi.
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snoop dogg said:
What r u talking about. The dude is obviously a black belt if copa podio finds him worthy to compete along with the lines of rodolfo and xande. Just because ibjjf has a requirenment doesnt mean he needs to stay at brown. Bj penn, jt torres both got their black belts in 4 years. There have been a few guys to actually skip belts(fredson paixao) give the dude a black belt. He can fight better competitions in other orgs for a while.
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snoop dogg said:
Its not breaking the rules. Ibjjf isnt the epitome of jiu jitsu. Guys like jeff glover have made a career out of grapplers quest. Keenan would be fine. At least hed be fighting black belts
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What exactly is your argument?

Is it that Keenan should be promoted so he can fight black belts? As a brown belt he has had matches against Cyborg and as you yourself referenced he's fighting Copa Podio. So - he's getting matches against black belts, so what is your point?

At this point it seems like a smart play to have him as a brown belt. His goal is to win IBJJF world championships both at brown and black. If he was promoted now all it would do is make it so he couldn't win a world championship at brown belt. Being a brown belt obviously hasn't prevented him from competing against black belts.

There is also nothing that stops him as a brown belt from competing against black belts in non-IBJJF tournaments like GQ, ADCC qualifiers, or NAGA. So what is the logic in promoting him to black belt at this point? It does nothing for him, closes a few doors, and opens up nothing!
 
come on guys, are we really arguing that the IBJJF is not the pinacle of bjj? of course it is, just as adcc is the pinacle of subgrappling, there is no way around this...

On keenan destroying everyone, well, in the kumite he had some long ass matches, he won by sub (only way to win) but he was not destroying that dude that fought over 27 mins, thats for sure... should he be a bb? nop, why would he if the ibjjf tells you that you must be a brown for 1 year, whats in for him to turn black, not being able to compite in ibjjf tournaments? he is for sure at bb level, but if he can stay at brown win everything and make history as the best competitive brown ever, I dont see the problem, he has being compiting against blacks already, is not like he is hiding from them... give the kid a break for christ sake...

on LI, I used to be a hater, now im an admirer, he is doing a great job for him, for other kids, for lots of people, about his mkt? I could give a shit...

On him being the best ever? he is a long way from that (he has to produce world bb champs for that), but he sure as hell is in the right way.
 
Knuckles69 said:
What exactly is your argument?

Is it that Keenan should be promoted so he can fight black belts? As a brown belt he has had matches against Cyborg and as you yourself referenced he's fighting Copa Podio. So - he's getting matches against black belts, so what is your point?

At this point it seems like a smart play to have him as a brown belt. His goal is to win IBJJF world championships both at brown and black. If he was promoted now all it would do is make it so he couldn't win a world championship at brown belt. Being a brown belt obviously hasn't prevented him from competing against black belts.

There is also nothing that stops him as a brown belt from competing against black belts in non-IBJJF tournaments like GQ, ADCC qualifiers, or NAGA. So what is the logic in promoting him to black belt at this point? It does nothing for him, closes a few doors, and opens up nothing!
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The point isnt that he should b fighting blackbelts. Its that he shouldnt be fighting brown belts.
 
No he isn't. Have a look at the best coach ever and his methods

 
snoop dogg said:
Read thread again. Dont feel like explaining anymore
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The reason I ask is that after reading the thread I see nothing resembling a valid point as to why the judgment of his instructor should be questioned. Especially when one considers their goals, his ability to still get black belt competition and the fact that right now Keenan is the brown belt version of Keenan. Everyone's path in BJJ is different and the standards are therefore different.

As good as Keenan is right now, he's still just the brown belt version of who he CAN be.
 
You guys are totally shitting on other Brown Belts. Jackson Souza is still a brown. Felipe and Jaoa Gabriel had to wait to get their blacks after winning their divisions and playing 1 and 2 in absolute respectively.

You can argue that Paulo Miyao is clearly at black belt level and probably p4p the best brown belt right now...you guys are crazy.

Let Keenan be a brown belt and compete. I'm sure they're brown belts like AJ, Sinistro, Miyao, Gianni, Roberts, and a whole host of browns that feel like they have a shot, and are working hard day in and day out. It's not impossible for Keenan to get passed up...he was once an unknown purple belt you know.

I just find it funny how this dude Felipe Pena tied against LEANDRO LO and no one was crying about him sandbagging because people UNDERSTOOD that he couldn't be promoted right away due to time limits.

I rather see him continuing growing through brown belt then have him jump to it anyways....

And believe it or not COMPETITORS just because you can perform great against black belts doesn't mean you deserve a blackbelt. A Blackbelt should also have BLACKBELT knowledge. Lloyd would be the first to tell you that his guys don't know a whole lot of moves but they execute a number of transitions extremely well.
 
Lloyd's a good coach with a good team who gets them to train very hard and do well. There lots of other coaches who are just as good - like Cavaca, if not better.
 
When Lloyd has 3/4 multiple time world champions training under him like some of the Brazilian guys we can claim him to be the best. Are we forgetting how JT chokes at every major event and has been doing so for a while? Not hating, he just never seems to be able to push that final bit, what makes you think someone like DJ could, if an arguably far more talented competitor in JT Torres can't? All anyone has to do to stop DJ scoring in the gi is to pull guard.

Likewise Keenan looks like he has the most potential of all of them, but there are a lot of great brown belts who looked average when they got to black, although to his credit he does have some good showings against black belt guys in no gi.

I still don't think any of them will ever win the Mundials if I'm honest, divisions are way too stacked, JT still has the best chance at -76 IMO.
 
Calibur said:
You're delusional.

Medal chasers care about the quickest path to profit and fame. They care about competitions that will put them closer to that goal. Lloyd Irvin sees it as a stepping stone. That's it. He has not blind loyalty to it. If the medal chasers could grapple for cash every weekend they would tell the IBJJF to go fuck themselves.

These aren't random Brazilians hoping to make a name for themselves so they can open an overpriced gym for California yuppies. They don't need the IBJJF as much as others do.
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You
 
McBain said:
I mean, their team sent a bunch of guys to the distant tournaments like the Japan Open. How many other American teams have done that? Money and fame are a result of their love of the art, but they are not their primary motivator.
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I know a team that sent their instructor to the Japan Open. He won his division. He's from a town of 7k people and you've probably never heard of him. People do that quite often, they just don't have the LI marketing disaster behind them, promoting their every move.
 
robotsonic said:
When Lloyd has 3/4 multiple time world champions training under him like some of the Brazilian guys we can claim him to be the best. Are we forgetting how JT chokes at every major event and has been doing so for a while? Not hating, he just never seems to be able to push that final bit, what makes you think someone like DJ could, if an arguably far more talented competitor in JT Torres can't? All anyone has to do to stop DJ scoring in the gi is to pull guard.

Likewise Keenan looks like he has the most potential of all of them, but there are a lot of great brown belts who looked average when they got to black, although to his credit he does have some good showings against black belt guys in no gi.

I still don't think any of them will ever win the Mundials if I'm honest, divisions are way too stacked, JT still has the best chance at -76 IMO.
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Keenan will watch.
 
IMO Lloyd is the best coach right now.Of course it is arguable,but IMO he is because he is having so much success with his guys in a short amount of time.Sure guys like Jacare have had alot of BB World champs,but ,most weren't instructed by HIM. Plus many defected to Alliance when they were already dominant Brown Belts and Black Belts.People dismiss that Alliance wins tourneys with dozens of schools and students that don't train together or have the same coach.Lloyd's team is doing so well with 2 schools(Camp Springs and Crazy 88).Additionally,he has one of the best kids program in the country.I used to think Lloyd sandbagged,but really his guys are just getting good at such a fast rate that it seems that way.Guys like DJ,Fowler,Hall and JT have gotten their BBs in 4 years.Every year they are at the top of their belt level.Now guys are saying they should "skip" belts? That's ridiculous.There are guys that WON Worlds and lost the next year at the same belt(Jordan Schultz). Anything can happen at Worlds and IMO pretty much everyone that makes it to the quarter finals at Worlds are well above the average belt level above them. You see tons of guys get promoted and instantly at the top of their new belt.The idea that he should sit out Worlds because he is improving so fast in just ridiculous IMO.
 
IBJJF tournaments are some of the top tournaments. I dont see anything wrong with him waiting until he is IBJJF blackbelt ready. He might be blackbelt at his skill level but he if he wants to wait and build his skills up as a brown belt before he enters the blackbelt division that is fine it might even be smart, that way he can hit those division full steam ahead.
 
Amave said:
It seems as tho Keenan is a black belt , but LI wants to let him stay at brown for W/E reason ...
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It's called "sand bagging". Keenan was black belt level when he was a purple belt, easily.
 
Einarr said:
It's called "sand bagging". Keenan was black belt level when he was a purple belt, easily.
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he made a huge change when he was a purple belt. idk what happened..
this was before his rise to stardom

8:09
 
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