Is knee wrestling a really useless skill?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Jonas g33k, May 31, 2014.

  1. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    knee wrestling: when 2 fighters are crouching and trying throw each other instead of standing or pulling guard.

    It is commonly accepted that it is "more realistic" to start from guard/turtle than wrestle from the knees. But I'm actually wondering if it's true.

    In a BJJ setting it would be unlikely because jujiteiros are perfectly fine with bottom game, but in judo this situation happens often since a big throw from the knee would still count as a win.

    So I was wondering if knee-wrestling would be usefull in MMA. Is it usefull to know how to ippon seoi someone who is squatting?
     
  2. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    If we're talking Judo then just stand and Osoto Gari then from their knees. If they're standing up then Uchi Mata them on the leg they base out on.
     
  3. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    It's useless when you're not allowed to stand as part of it. It's not totally useless, but it's less practical.
     
  4. tap21

    tap21 Green Belt

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    We have one rule on the wall at our gym. It bans knee wrestling.

    At least in no-gi, it's an abysmal way to prepare for the standing part of matches.

    If you go to almost any no-gi tournament, it is pretty rare to see two guys both on their knees for any non-trivial period of time. But, it is very common to see a match start with both guys doing significant wrestling on the feet. Hell, in the finals of ADCC (the apex of no-gi grappling IMHO), you lose points if you pull guard.

    It doesn't make any sense to start from the knees.
     
  5. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Its only useless if you are not allowed to stand up or if you have no idea what to do.

    But then again pretty much all sparring is useless if you have no idea what to do.
     
  6. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    I go back and forth on this. Sometimes its useful to just have someone start down and someone start up (if you have limited time to roll or roll short rounds). If you have enough time, starting on knees isn't bad. You're still competing and its still physical. You can still develop better balance, simulate standup grip fighting (kind of) and control without risking injuries from standing at the beginning of every roll.
     
  7. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    It happens in judo when a throw doesn't take someone down but still manage to make him kneel. (ie: a countered drop seoi with both fighters ending up kneeling)

    In this kind of situation I prefer to try a throw from my knees rather than standing. I actually feel that attacking is a better option than standing because it's proactive.

    Is this mindset usefull in any other grappling art beside judo? What about wrestling/sambo/mma? I guess that it would be kind of pointless in bjj.
     
  8. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    [YT]c5W4RZq1NRg[/YT]
     
  9. tap21

    tap21 Green Belt

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    As far as no-gi:

    Double knees is a TERRIBLE simulation of balance and grip fighting on the feet.

    Starting in almost any other position is better if you really want to have someone start down.
     
  10. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    I'm just wondering why people dismiss double knee so much since I often end up in this situation when I start from the feets.
     
  11. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    People just like to concede takedowns.
     
  12. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I just watched a kid's judo tournament yesterday where a ridiculous amount of time was spent wrestling from the knees after failed throws. Knee wrestling is a reality, like it or not, despite the hate it gets.
     
  13. Kozbot

    Kozbot Purple Belt

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    cause kid's suck
     
  14. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    A throw is not always good enough to get a clean fall, sometimes the other guy will just loose his balance and kneel.

    Of course if it happens in BJJ you'll usually pull guard because you wouldn't take the risk to get thrown but in arts it's not always possible.
     
  15. Kenny from MD

    Kenny from MD Less angry than before.

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    Ohhh so all these white and blue belts knew wrestling when starting rounds down are just practicing for the scenario where a judo throw fails. I thought they just didn't know better or realize they were wasting their time. Glad to find out I'm wrong and everyone is practicing the nuances of judo which happens to be a vital skill. Get real
     
  16. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Not my fault you cant teach to fight for top position at your gym, better pull guard in all situations because all the gyms should only be worried about sport BJJ, not general fitness, general grappling, MMA, Judo, Wrestling whatever.

    Just remember the moment someone puts a hand on you just sit down.
     
  17. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    I honestly don't think it's useless at all.

    It's decent practice for finishing moves from standing or in a scramble. But that is if instead of the both guys grabbing shoulders and push/pull, they are using technique.

    Simulation of.....
    Knee tap takedown
    Duck under
    Head pressure
    Arm drag
    Single leg
    Snap downs
    Front headlocks

    These are all good things to get your muscle memory wrapped around.

    Just don't Wrassle for half the roll. Tbh it bugs the shit out of me when we start on kness and I hit a nice knee tap and my opponent jumps back to his feet to standing to defend it. Honestly, if I get an under hook, proper head pressure and hit the knee tap and the only way to stop it is to jump up to your feet.......... Maybe you could just except it and go to your back!?
     
  18. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    Starting from your knees is primarily a safety thing. Having people fly all over the place shooting doubles can be dangerous in a crowded gym. Knee wrestling is all ego and wanting to win. It would be better for your game just to swap positions with you partner every time you start.
     
  19. Terror Zone

    Terror Zone Banned Banned

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    It's completely useless.
     
  20. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Knee wrestling just reflects the inability of mainstream BJJ to impose someones game, knee wrestling reflects the same as standup wrestling among BJJ hobby practitioners stalling, overly defensive posture and a lack of aggression or action based on a lack of confidence in one skills.

    As i already posted, Anthony Robles 3 times all american and 1 time national champ couldnt wrestle standing up, he achieved all of that knee wrestling against the best of the best.
     

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