Is Kevin Lee any more evolved than Coleman/Randleman?

[MescalineDreams]

A fresh Kevin usually cuts through his opponent's guard without too much issue, while Kevin and Mark actually get outworked by the guy on the bottom. Kevin can also throw kicks and outstruck Edson, so he's got the edge there too.

I'd put Mark's wrestling above Lee's, but put both Kevin's at about the same level due to both relying on thleticism over technique.

It's pretty asinine to actually make the argument that Lee's BJJ is as bad as Randleman's just because he's gotten tapped by two of the better grapplers in his generation in RDA and Ferguson. He never got subbed by a striker in Cro Cop or a fellow wrestler in Randleman.

Lees grappling is quite good. Id say around solid brown belt level

He mounted Tony Ferguson and had him in big trouble for a bit there.

I'd also say along with his kicks, his boxing is far better than it gets credit for as well. He has a good jab, strait right, left hook, last fight it wasn't fully shown since he was sort of brawling against RDA. Still outstruck him for 2 rounds though

Iirc I think he fought a more calculated fight at range against Barboza. Outstruck him for 5 rounds. Even Tony he was outstripping up until he gassed.

Definitely some things to improve upon but the amount of people pretending he can't strike are absurd and I'm not sure what they're watching.

It Could be that people are basing it exclusively off moments when he's exhausted which would make sense but obviously produces a wildly inaccurate overview of his skill set.

 

[HunterAcosta]

You mean , as a human ?!

 

[gono btw]

Honest question, is English not your first language?
Your posts would not lead most people to conclude that this was what you were talking about.

Yes, there were well rounded guys out there 20 years ago. There just wasn't that many. Now days, every top level fighter is well rounded. Even fighters like Ngannou are far more well rounded than they get credit for because of the training.

Anyways, the problem with the fighters you are mentioning is that they didn't put it all together as well as the guys do now because of the training. There is a big difference between being a high level amateur wrestler or submission guy with a legit striking background and being great at MMA.

Babalu is a perfect example. The guy was a legit wrestler and a muay tai fighter on paper, but he wasn't putting it all together in the late 90's or even early 2000's as well as the guys now or even himself in the later part of his career. He's a guy that had he been able to keep his chin, he could have had a lot more success into his 30's because there where far superior gyms and training available out there at that time than what was out there in his physical prime.
In his day he was good, but I'm not so sure an early 2000's Babalu could beat anyone in the current top 10 at LHW or MW in 2019.

Great, great, mate... but tbh, Im not interested in your general view on that matter, this is rather... 'cliché.'...
Ya´re not bringin´any real 'substance', Im afraid...

Sayin´somethin´like "Yes, there were well rounded guys out there 20 years ago. There just wasn't that many" lacks real understandin´of the context: back then, and especially in the Vale Tudo/NHB era, tournament spots or events were pretty scarce, which limited the fighters´dedication to the sport, somehow...
That´s the reason why they were less 'visible' or less numerous..
But this is by no means a matter of mindset.

Meanwhile, [potential] "well-roundedness" can also be a mere adaptation to a specific Fight Configuration.
For instance, one of these fighters that ya´re praisin´ can be thrivin´ within a modern [UFC] Fight Configuration, but could have been out of his element in a Rings or Pride one, where the Scorin´System requires a different skill set.

Ya said that Lee´s got in his résumé "more well-rounded guys than the dudes who were competin´back then".

Consequently, this implies that ya do have a legit knowledge of these dudes´skill set.

Not so long ago, for instance, Lee fought Barboza, and others like Iaquinta etc.
If we follow your logic, Barboza´s more well-rounded than someone like... Suloev or Ebenezer Braga.

Then let me repeat my request: can ya please gimme a quick [2 lines] assessment of their skill set?
Ya cant realistically dismiss them without really knowin´them, that would not be serious, wont ya agree?

About Babalu, ya fail to understand that when he started his career, he had to fight :
> @ OW
> in specific Fight Configurations & Scorin´Systems & [Vale Tudo : IVC or BVF.. / Rings]

Babalu had a Wrasslin´, MT & Luta Livre Budokan background, under Master Joao Ricardo.
[Luta Livre ~ Catch Wrasslin´+greco-roman wrasslin´+JJJ].
He then added BJJ to his skill set.

But, ya dont adapt your skill set to these specific Fight Configurations the same way ya would adapt it to a modern one.
In Rings, he fought the likes of :
Valentijn Overeem
Tariel Bitsadze
Illoukhine
Tamura
Hendo

Let me ask ya: how do ya think they would prepare themselves, these current "well-rounded" fighters, for such specific Fight Configurations?

 

[Kertol]

Fitch got mollywhopped by Maia.

He has nothing for Usman or Colby.

Colby and Usman matched up well stylistically against Maia.

Plus the Maia that beat Fitch was the best version of Maia to ever compete in mma

 

[Hatorade]

Great, great, mate... but tbh, Im not interested in your general view on that matter, this is rather... 'cliché.'...
Ya´re not bringin´any real 'substance', Im afraid...

Sayin´somethin´like "Yes, there were well rounded guys out there 20 years ago. There just wasn't that many" lacks real understandin´of the context: back then, and especially in the Vale Tudo/NHB era, tournament spots or events were pretty scarce, which limited the fighters´dedication to the sport, somehow...
That´s the reason why they were less 'visible' or less numerous..
But this is by no means a matter of mindset.

Meanwhile, [potential] "well-roundedness" can also be a mere adaptation to a specific Fight Configuration.
For instance, one of these fighters that ya´re praisin´ can be thrivin´ within a modern [UFC] Fight Configuration, but could have been out of his element in a Rings or Pride one, where the Scorin´System requires a different skill set.

Ya said that Lee´s got in his résumé "more well-rounded guys than the dudes who were competin´back then".

Consequently, this implies that ya do have a legit knowledge of these dudes´skill set.

Not so long ago, for instance, Lee fought Barboza, and others like Iaquinta etc.
If we follow your logic, Barboza´s more well-rounded than someone like... Suloev or Ebenezer Braga.

Then let me repeat my request: can ya please gimme a quick [2 lines] assessment of their skill set?
Ya cant realistically dismiss them without really knowin´them, that would not be serious, wont ya agree?

About Babalu, ya fail to understand that when he started his career, he had to fight :
> @ OW
> in specific Fight Configurations & Scorin´Systems & [Vale Tudo : IVC or BVF.. / Rings]

Babalu had a Wrasslin´, MT & Luta Livre Budokan background, under Master Joao Ricardo.
[Luta Livre ~ Catch Wrasslin´+greco-roman wrasslin´+JJJ].
He then added BJJ to his skill set.

But, ya dont adapt your skill set to these specific Fight Configurations the same way ya would adapt it to a modern one.
In Rings, he fought the likes of :
Valentijn Overeem
Tariel Bitsadze
Illoukhine
Tamura
Hendo

Let me ask ya: how do ya think they would prepare themselves, these current "well-rounded" fighters, for such specific Fight Configurations?

You're either not from the states, you're trying to sound artsy/edgy, or you have an obvious learning disability.
The way you construe your thoughts into written word is just obnoxious as all can be. I can't be the only person on this forum that has put you on blast for this. Regardless of why you write like a fucking retard really isn't important I suppose. What is important is that it makes people not want to discuss MMA with you on this forum. This is a problem for you. I would love to go into detail on what I think you might be talking about because I love this subject, but I just can't bare the thought of reading another one of your word salads with shitty grammar, no real point, and fucked up spelling.

I really do apologize for being so blunt, and you have all the right to call me out for being too lame to respond to your post with legit details on why I believe what I believe, but I just can't read anymore of your shit. The way you write makes me angry.

 

[Reffson]

Way more evolved than them but they were brutally strong.

 

[gono btw]

You're either not from the states, you're trying to sound artsy/edgy, or you have an obvious learning disability.
The way you construe your thoughts into written word is just obnoxious as all can be. I can't be the only person on this forum that has put you on blast for this. Regardless of why you write like a fucking retard really isn't important I suppose. What is important is that it makes people not want to discuss MMA with you on this forum. This is a problem for you. I would love to go into detail on what I think you might be talking about because I love this subject, but I just can't bare the thought of reading another one of your word salads with shitty grammar, no real point, and fucked up spelling.

I really do apologize for being so blunt, and you have all the right to call me out for being too lame to respond to your post with legit details on why I believe what I believe, but I just can't read anymore of your shit. The way you write makes me angry.

That´s what I thought, ya dont know what ya´re talkin´about.

 

[Hatorade]

That´s what I thought, ya dont know what ya´re talkin´about.

Why do you write like that?
Is it intentional? Forget the subject (I honestly don't even know what you were debating). This is more important to me. Why do you write the way you write?

 

[gono btw]

Why do you write like that?
Is it intentional? Forget the subject (I honestly don't even know what you were debating). This is more important to me. Why do you write the way you write?

Of course ya dont know shit about the debate, since ya´re duckin´, ya goof, lmao

Suloev or Ebenezer Braga.

For the 3rd time: quick [2 lines] assessment of their skill set?

Can ya answer, YES OR NO?

Spoiler

 

[Hatorade]

Of course ya dont know shit about the debate, since ya´re duckin´, ya goof, lmao

Suloev or Ebenezer Braga.

For the 3rd time: quick [2 lines] assessment of their skill set?

Can ya answer, YES OR NO?

View attachment 589367

Spoiler

View attachment 589369

I don't care about your nerd shit. I've actually fought.

Now back to your writing. Why do you write like that and is it intentional? DO YOU WRITE LIKE THAT ON PURPOSE?

I always used to wonder this same type of thing with white kids that talk like they're black when I was younger. I mean, after a while is it even conscious? Do they intentionally talk like that, or is it just pure habit after a while. Sorta like a dude that lies all the time believing their own lies.

 

[gono btw]

I don't care about your nerd shit. I've actually fought.

Now back to your writing. Why do you write like that and is it intentional? DO YOU WRITE LIKE THAT ON PURPOSE?

I always used to wonder this same type of thing with white kids that talk like they're black when I was younger. I mean, after a while is it even conscious? Do they intentionally talk like that, or is it just pure habit after a while. Sorta like a dude that lies all the time believing their own lies.

ah mate.. gotta tell ya a secret...

I jus´ love when the dude´s jus´so clueless that he´s reduced to nazi grammar shit..



I asked ya THREE TIMES about 2 fighters´ skill set, and... [crickets.]...lmao

Spoiler

Ya´re owned, fool.

 

[xentreos]

Yes. Much more.

He was arguably Top 5 at LW---the deepest class, in 2018.

Coleman and Randleman would likely lose to every HW on the roster...and HW has always sucked.

You think so ? I can see Coleman smashing Francis.

 

[MartinGibson86]

You think so ? I can see Coleman smashing Francis.

No chance. Francis is 3-1 with 3 KO's against wrestlers...in 2019. No way a one dimensional fossil like Coleman does anything to him.

 

[cheesus]

Randleman and Coleman had much stronger wrestling credentials and were arguably better wrestlers. Neither of them had much other than that though, Randleman relied on athleticism and Coleman strength. Lee is much more well rounded than the pair.

 

[ArmenianAssasin]

Title says it all. Kevin Lee was apparently going to beat Khabib 6 months ago. And MMA has apparently evolved so much in the last 15-20 years. So surely a modern day LW/WW would be way more advanced than an ancient HW? Especially a notoriously limited HW like Hammerhouse produced.

Wrestling? Coleman and Randleman are at worst equal to Lee here. At worst

Striking? Again pretty equal. Randleman KOd Cro Cop. What has Lee ever done on the feet?

BJJ? None of them can even spell BJJ so again pretty even.

Cardio? Again non existent for all 3.

Ive just realised... Kevin Lee is Team Hammerhouse. Holy shit!

Really? You forget lee choking out Cheisa and trinaldo?

He’s much more evolved and complete — solid standup with great all around game game ( mostly top game though)

Randleman and Coleman were just roided up super strong wrestlers — USADA would take them out faster than anyone in the current roster

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

OK what's with the "Fighter Kevin Lee" stuff?

What am I missing?

We covered this. There are many, many other Lees around, so we should avoid any possible confusions, say, with Lee Van Cleef, Bruce Lee, etc.

His full name also happens to be Fighter Kevin Lee.

 

[gono btw]

Randleman and Coleman had much stronger wrestling credentials and were arguably better wrestlers. Neither of them had much other than that though, Randleman relied on athleticism and Coleman strength. Lee is much more well rounded than the pair.

Monster had deceptive boxing tho...

 

[xentreos]

No chance. Francis is 3-1 with 3 KO's against wrestlers...in 2019. No way a one dimensional fossil like Coleman does anything to him.

Yeah fa sho , Coleman was a beast but when I picture him closing the distance hes getting lit up. Coleman wasn't always a fossil though,

 

[Hatorade]

ah mate.. gotta tell ya a secret...

I jus´ love when the dude´s jus´so clueless that he´s reduced to nazi grammar shit..

View attachment 589413

I asked ya THREE TIMES about 2 fighters´ skill set, and... [crickets.]...lmao

Spoiler

Ya´re owned, fool.

View attachment 589411

It's not really your grammar that bugs me. It's that fashion that you construe your thoughts into words. It's like you're on drugs or something; however, I bet tat you're not a total retard, so it makes it even harder to accept that you communicate like one.

You gave me 3 fighters to size up. I did one. I don't want to waste anymore time talking to you because I hate your posts, but if you break down the skill set of Ebenezer, I will give you my opinion of him and his skill set in regards to modern competition. I really don't know much about suloev. I'm sure I've seen one of his fights, as I've heard the name, but I'm not going to pretend to know much about him. Maybe, I'll watch a few of his fights, but I feel like if he was that great or well rounded, I would remember him better.

 

[lenbiasgoat]

Yes. Much more.

He was arguably Top 5 at LW---the deepest class, in 2018.

Coleman and Randleman would likely lose to every HW on the roster...and HW has always sucked.

U sir are drunk if u think the entire hw roster beats prime randleman and Coleman lol