is it really unorthodox or are you just limited in your knowledge

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    satx
    lots of times we see a guy and say he has unorthodox or improper tech, and in some cases that is in fact true; but in other cases i think its a lack of exposure to other arts that makes it seem as if the person being observed doesn't know what they are doing, because you only have a limited understanding of certain arts wether you train them or not.

    ex-the hands up, hands down thing; how many guys assume a guy can't box if he has his hands low...not understanding that you can box effectively like that based on positioning..angles..etc etc.

    another example would be stances, certain people see a guy taking an old school stance and assume he doesn't know what he is doing; i knew a guy in h/s who got in a fight and took and old school boxing stance. Everyone laughed at him, until he lit the guy he fought up; his whole family was a boxing family and everyone was taught the older way of boxing.

    in mma often times people say he has sloppy striking or wide open, when in fact he is doing his art; examples of this would be lyoto machida and chuck liddel, two guys who have alot of tma influence in their striking if your familiar w/their arts.

    or guys like robert whittaker or lorenz larkin or ryan jimmo or makdessi; guys who blend tkd kung fu karate hapkido into their mt/kb and as a result look unorthodox, when really all they are is diverse.

    even in the thread saamag posted sparring, some said he didn't know mt or boxing; when in fact it was just elements of kung fu or karate blended in w/his mt or boxing. Some guys picked up on that; but guys w/limited experience or exposure wouldn't.

    so what really is unorthodox-keith jardine..people say i am really unorthodox..

    thoughts/opinions
     
  2. Hamnabaki

    Hamnabaki Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    2
    I fully agree I did TMA way before I did MMA. The 1st technique I Learned was straight front kick.

    So my instructors kept on yelling at me that my teep kick is all wrong. I first I begun to argue then just shut my mouth and respeected my instructors, but in live sparring when I feel like throwing a old straight front kick I did.

    My coaches although total bad asses were ex-collegiate wreslters who have been mma/thai striking for 3 years. Ive been tkd and kempo for over 10, jus realized they had no clue what I was doing and just figured I was some noob who was trying to do what he seen on tv.
     
  3. Eric Bradach

    Eric Bradach Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Thailand
    I think it more depends on the guy who's fighting but at times yes, it is more of a lack of knowledge or even ignorance at times. I come from a muay thai background, been doing it for years. I don't watch mma all that much but when I first saw Machida fight, even though I have no knowledge or experience in karate I knew that he knew what he was doing. I was also able to appreciate him as a fighter for his good timing, accuracy, and ability of taking little damage. Where as others would be ignorant about it and just bash him for not doing traditional boxing or muay thai.

    However I've seen plenty more unorthodox fighters in mma but I think its due more to a lack of knowledge on their part. Also a lack of proper instruction.
     
  4. TheHereticJay

    TheHereticJay I scoff at your belt rankings

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Beijing, China
    Well, let's look at the meaning of orthodox first. It is something which is conventional or the norm, an established way. So anything that strays from this is obviously going to be "unorthodox" by definition.

    In an MMA viewpoint, there really shouldn't be the words "orthodox" and "unorthodox" because of the varying arts being represented as one. When these arts are blend together, they are no longer themselves and thus lose what SHOULD be the orthodox way of doing a technique. Everything in modern MMA is unorthodox.

    Now with other arts, yes you can say something is unorthodox. The boxer who stands southpaw with his hands wide as opposed to keeping them in tight. Or the muay thai fighter who stands almost boxerish because he favors throwing hands over kicking. The grappler who will stand straight up instead of trying to get lower than his opponent. The list can go on and on.

    So in conclusion, the only thing unorthodox is that which is not expected from a particular art. It's unorthodox for a boxer to throw a superman punch, it's unorthodox for a karate guy to throw a 2,3,2 combo. It's unorthodox to leave the confines of your martial art and blend it with another, but in time I believe we'll see more cross training and less of this unorthodox talk.
     
  5. Nuclearlandmine

    Nuclearlandmine Shreddin' Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,697
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    The end of the earth
    Yes, i agree wholeheartedly with this view. Maybe "what we've seen" vs "what we've not seen?"

    IMO it is mainly lack of knowledge and ignorance. Like that time when i spar with the kickboxing instructor, he only give in and say that my style works when he finally experience it first hand how frustrated it can be.
     
  6. KarateStylist

    KarateStylist Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    599
    Location:
    United States
    ^^^ Short answer is 1st.... ppil taking convention they have been shown or have observed & taking that as the gospel to mimic....

    ^^^ Brief example is a MMA site poster, supposedly an expert in karate,,,, told me that Shotokan's way of fighting was the "Distance" formula, such as we see from Lyoto Machida....

    ^^^ That karateka, not a Shotokan stylist, may be well-trained & very experienced.... What they have really done, however, is take a sport-fighting mindset; and say because we see the far majority of Shotokan tournaments, largely point fighting.... using the "Distancing" strategy convention,,,, that strategy is the basic principle for Shotokan kumite.....

    ^^^ The statement is true, for Shotokan kumite free-fighting convention, as we see it practiced.... The conclusion is FALSE, however.... when you look at Shotokan and it's founding roots, which trains more of a close-in exchange fighting.... though you generally don't dally close up....
    ^^^ YES, you have made an excellent CONCLUSION, still though from an applied-fighting perspective....

    ^^^ The guiding principles @ work in Lyoto Machida's sparring strategy is Shotokan's, "DEFENSE 1ST" PHILOSOPHY. The exaggerated, "in & out" movement, mobility, is a result of that philosophy.

    ^^^ Moreover, Shotokan, strictly speaking, adheres to the "1-STRIKE KILL" PHILOSOPHY.... So when you put the DEFENSE 1ST PHILOSOPHY together with the 1-STRIKE KILL MAXIM.... we now have the PRINCIPLES basis for the highly-mobile Shotokan kumite style....

    The traditional karate / MMA conclusion, is the Shotokan karate kumite "Distancing" formula convention exhibited by Lyoto Machida,,,, is ORTHODOX Shotokan competition kumite.....


    KarateStylist
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  7. johnyboy

    johnyboy Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    14,650
    Likes Received:
    951
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Unorthodox means Contrary to what is usual so if a guy holds his hands a certian way when everyone else holds them another then yes he is unorthodox.
     
  8. KarateStylist

    KarateStylist Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes Received:
    599
    Location:
    United States
    ^^^ RIGHT. Boxer's tend to move around & circle within hand striking range.... take isolated shots, or, alternatively trade punches.... backing up to reset....

    ^^^ HENCE, Lyoto Machida's Shotokan "Distance" Fighting strategy of evade, hold outside normal boxer's hand striking range.... avoid trading punches & prolonged exchanges....

    >>> Would be UNORTHODOX boxing strategy.....

    KarateStylist
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.