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Is It Cool To Say No?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by GracieStudent, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

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    today i was at class and this guy asked me to roll with him. a 6'4 240lb guy who i knew was klumsy. i'm a buck 85 and have no problem rolling with guys who are bigger. i knew right away he wasn't about control and i was in for a real treat. first off, i am new as well but i think i'm more advanced then most of the new guys.. at least i'm more controlled. he had more stripes than me and was doing everything wrong when we were practicing techniques. all good but i had originally planned to roll with someone who could teach me something or at least give me some good technical competition so to speak. this guy ended up being a [email protected]#$%# nightmare. first of all he was just muscling everything then when we were rolling he started digging the sharp end of his elbows into my face with total disregard. i managed to get out of it, then immediately took his back in a bit of a frenzy, then he started tapping real quick b4 i could sink anything in. i ALMOST ignored the tap. after he tapped i told him right away, yo, u can't do that man! "you can't take the spike of your elbow and grind it into peoples face"! i told him you can use the forearm in the neck and all that but we're white belts bro, we're trying to learn technique. he said no one ever mention that b4 to him and he was sorry. i was still friggin mad yo. as soon as i would take mount or anything where he was in a bad position to take some fire he would tap b4 i could submit him. not to mention you know, his klumsy kick to the head because he was unco-ordinated. i just knew right away he wasn't the guy i wanted to roll with and i was kicking myself in the ass for saying yes to him. next time i think i'm gonna lock down my partner b4 someone like him asks me to partner up. i'm just tired of these white belts who have no control, they're doing the move too fast to even learn them and are trying to muscle everything. i guess i'm paying my dues. if you guys have any suggestion on how to turn somebody down i would appreciate it guys- thanks a million
     
  2. Soid

    Soid Renegade of Funk

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    Just get someone better to roll with. I usually pick someone before class because I don't like searching for partners and then end up being alone. I used to wait for people to pick me and I'd find myself for a whole class without a partner. I had this problem a lot when I first trained at Renzo's. It was a shitty feeling though taking the trip there and no one to roll with me. Damn how much that sucked. But anyways just find someone to roll with before class. Pick someone your size and a little slightly more technical than you are. You seem to have the right attitude.

    I also remember this one guy asking a group of dudes if anyone wanted to roll "slow" and with "technique". And then when they roll the dude who said that is using full force strength and abusing whoever he's rolling with. It's teh ghey. There are a lot of new students in Renzo's now so beware.
     
  3. Joey Guidice

    Joey Guidice Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    I would just say "nah man i'm not rolling just yet" or something like that.....i've never been one to turn ne one down either and i know how you feel but sometimes you just gotta do whats best for you
     
  4. Jitsuman

    Jitsuman Orange Belt

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    If I'm absurdly tired or hurt or just plain beat up I'll say "no" every time.

    Hell I'll say "no" if I'd rather just rep technique.

    There's nothing wrong with saying "no" just understand it is hard to get better without rolling a lot.

    In your case the guy seems like a punk so dont bother. Though it's good to roll with people who spaz out and ignore the rules in my mind, that just gets you better, and them tapped out.

    First sign of a guy who sucks at bjj is trying to submit you with forearm chokes from inside your guard. Push that shit to the side and sink an arm-bar or arm-triangle.
     
  5. Soid

    Soid Renegade of Funk

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    I think Punk is just harsh. The guy is new. Give him time. New guys just need more help. Don't be shy to share what you feel works for you with him so he can learn. BJJ is also a learning enviornment.
     
  6. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    I've never said no to anyone except for a senior black belt that constantly went for the same throw, using his much heavier weight to drag me down. He once cracked one of my ribs with it.

    One day I got into an argument with him about it and he was telling me I shouldnt have a problem with it because it was a legitimate technique, while I was telling him he should develop a better range of techniques so he wouldnt have to always use his weight advantage. We almost came to blows after practice but he came off looking like the idiot in front of everyone.

    Now, I avoid him & he avoids me. A few others avoid him too, so now he rarely goes on the mat anyone - I think he got the message.
     
  7. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

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    at first i thought the point of his elbow grinding in to my face was like some kind of accident then i tried moving it away and he kept trying to break my fuckin face (sorry 4 the swears but it just pisses me off to think about it). dude, i know about the respect thing but he really [email protected]#$#@ needs to get choked out yo. i'm sure he's been there for a while man, he had some stripes PLUS he wasn't any good. so u know that those are 'time put in' stripes and not 'technique and progression' stripes, so.. man i'm pissed too cuz he was doing that tappin out b4 i could put out some get back. the guys a big dude and he's in his mid-30's! just creepy and the next time i roll with someone like that, i don't know if i can play by the rules... i might just go def for a quick sec when he's tappin out...
     
  8. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    A agree with Soid though. For a newcomer you have to help him understand that it is not a free-for-all on the ground - despite what he migh see on MMA videos.

    If you talk to him as a mate rather than talking "down" to him he might start to realise people will start to avoid him if he keeps up the rough-stuff so he'll be left with fewer partners to learn from.
     
  9. Jitsuman

    Jitsuman Orange Belt

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    He doesn't sound like a new commer though.
     
  10. jamison

    jamison Brown Belt

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    Learn how to talk, YO. I can't believe we have a yo-boy on here.
     
  11. jamison

    jamison Brown Belt

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    I would choke you unconcious for talking like that, YO. That was not even cool when people used to say that, like, like 10 years ago, YO.
     
    Randy Trevor likes this.
  12. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

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    What happens to me when rolling with beginners is this... a) The punch me without even know it b) They kick me as well, c) They put elbows in my face on my throat, d) They twist my fingers in order to escape. I don't say anything to them until the rolling is over... You see BJJ is M.A. is good to know what to do when the opponent uses anorthodox movement.
     
  13. Ghostrider

    Ghostrider Orange Belt

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    That was me starting out. :redface: I t took me a long while to figure out why I kept getting armbarred. Initially I was cathing people from inside the guard with chokes, then they adjusted and I just kept tapping. :icon_cry2

    The guy may not necessarily understand what he is doing as I went through the strength versus technique phase. I am probably just getting out of that phase myself. I understand what you are going through after rolling with a couple of beginners and a pretty experienced guy that insists on cranking everything hard with everyone he rolls with (we usually avoid him).
     
  14. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    just beat the guy, and quit whining online.
    If he is such a rookie with bad technique.. you should be smoking him YO!
    [​IMG]
    You 185? Funny.. you look smaller in your pic.
     
  15. vanguard_anon

    vanguard_anon Clever user title

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    I don't think I've ever declined a roll but I'm not above doing a 5 second, "Ok but no elbows to the face" or "I'm recovering from an injury so no neck cranks".
     
  16. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    Same here Vanguard. I have pulled the "water break" that lasts 5 minutes until the goof ball is rolling with someone else a couple times though. But mostly, even rolling with goofy fuckers is good for your game.

    So YO graciestudent, don't skip the rollz, word?
     
  17. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    Although I have never declined to roll with anyone, it is ABSOLUTELY within your rights to not roll with someone. If you feel that someone is dangerous and uncontrolled, go ahead and tell the instructor that you rather not roll with him. You paid for the mat time, it's your dollar, do with it what you will. There's no need for you to risk serious injury just because some meathead is an idiot.

    I agree that this guy sounds like he's just new and that he isn't just a complete idiot. However, there's no reason why you have to be the one that gets hurt before he learns some self-control. Maybe you should try asking the instructor to talk to the guy about it.

    On the flip side, I agree that you can learn a useful thing or two from these spazzes about what you would do in a self-defense situation. Nevertheless, if you're not up to it or if it represents an unwarranted danger to your health, then feel free to say no.
     
  18. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

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    Rolling with a sack full of elbows is no fun. Especially when they outweigh you by 50+lbs.

    In recent memory I haven't declined to roll. But I would have no problems in doing so.

    What I REALLY hate are those spaztic fucks who sit out the whole class and wait until you have gone through 10 guys and THEN ask to roll with you because you are tired. You KNOW they sat and waited and conserved energy for you. So they can throw every elbow and knee at you as they try to muscle their way into a 'win' to compensate for a combination lack of skill/self-esteem. And when you are tired you are more likely to get hurt by these guys.
     
  19. infamous mattyd

    infamous mattyd Brown Belt

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    that was a great contribution. if you have nothing to say then keep it shut. or go to OT. you can ORLY yourself to death overthere, not to mention correct your and you're and spelling errors. in fact just stick to reading until you have something smart to say
     
  20. Brad

    Brad Yellow Belt

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    the only people I decline to roll with are people with bad hygiene. I had someone try to roll with me with an open wound, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let you bleed on me while we roll. Sweat I can handle, but blood is in a whole different category. What's worse than a spaz is someone with a practiced, tight game. Someone who understands how to cause discomfort and integrates it effectively as part of their game. It's not very fun to roll with these guys, but I've found it extremely beneficial. Pain tolerance and the ability to weather a bad/uncomfortable position is part of your game. Get used to it. Note: this isn't me saying don't tap if your caught, but if you tap to knee on belly, you could probably use a little work in the bodily conditioning department.
     

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