Is Israel attempting to "poach" the title off Jan, if not why didn't he fight Jon?

moreorless87 said:
WHen GSP retired he got criticism as well for not rematching Hendricks but again as I point out claiming Jones had "cleaned out" LHW simply doesnt make sense, if he'd moved up to HW after say beating Gus the second time he might have a bit more of a case for that but at the point he left the division he was arguably looking the weakest he ever had and had plenty of fresh matchups.

The reason the rematch with Reyes didnt happen is because Jones dropped the belt and moved up, Dana basically demanded Jones rematch Reyes or drop the belt and he chose to do the latter.
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When GSP returned nobody said instead of fighting Bisping he should rematch Hendricks did they? How many still want to see GSP vs Hendricks 2 over Khabib or Usman or some Champ? ... Because really nobody cared to see that fight again and just had issues with the judging... How many talk about being entertained in that fight over the judging?
It seemed the spectacle of mystery and fun with Bisping was a more desirable business choice than let's run it back so this time maybe justice is served.

Having the opinion of wanting the judging to be different in fight 1, doesn't mean fight 2 needs to happen, it just means the Judging might deserve criticism... The record is not tarnished because the majority of fans and media disagree with professionals. Records don't change based on subjective robberies and sometimes 1 fight is enough regardless of how close it is, Izzy vs Yoel is a good example, on the other side of the spectrum Zhang vs JJ is another good example.

For me cleaning a division out is completely dependant on results against ranked opponents and nothing subjective.

I don't think Jones dropping the belt tarnishes his record of 20 wins in 22 fights over 12 years which justifies to me dominance of a division like no one else ever in the UFC.
 
Bones would’ve won, Jan will most definitely lose. They saw a much easier fight for him to become a double champ and they jumped on it.
 
Jose Beehive said:
When GSP returned nobody said instead of fighting Bisping he should rematch Hendricks did they? How many still want to see GSP vs Hendricks 2 over Khabib or Usman or some Champ? ... Because really nobody cared to see that fight again and just had issues with the judging... How many talk about being entertained in that fight over the judging?
It seemed the spectacle of mystery and fun with Bisping was a more desirable business choice than let's run it back so this time maybe justice is served.

Having the opinion of wanting the judging to be different in fight 1, doesn't mean fight 2 needs to happen, it just means the Judging might deserve criticism... The record is not tarnished because the majority of fans and media disagree with professionals. Records don't change based on subjective robberies and sometimes 1 fight is enough regardless of how close it is, Izzy vs Yoel is a good example, on the other side of the spectrum Zhang vs JJ is another good example.

For me cleaning a division out is completely dependant on results against ranked opponents and nothing subjective.

I don't think Jones dropping the belt tarnishes his record of 20 wins in 22 fights over 12 years which justifies to me dominance of a division like no one else ever in the UFC.
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Thats because when he returned it was 4 years latter and Hendricks had since lost multiple times, he did absolutely get criticism for not rematching him at the time.

A lot of other strawmen your coming up with there that have little to do with my point that Jones hadnt cleaned out the division when he moved up which you don't reallty address. I didnt say anything about Jones longer legacy just that he hadnt cleaned out the division at that point.

The reality is Dana gave Jones an ultimatum, either rematch Reyes or move up to HW and Jones chose to move to HW, thats why the rematch didnt happen.
 
How is it izzy's fault that jones got run out of the division by dominick 'long-body' reyes?
 
moreorless87 said:
Thats because when he returned it was 4 years latter and Hendricks had since lost multiple times, he did absolutely get criticism for not rematching him at the time.

A lot of other strawmen your coming up with there that have little to do with my point that Jones hadnt cleaned out the division when he moved up which you don't reallty address. I didnt say anything about Jones longer legacy just that he hadnt cleaned out the division at that point.

The reality is Dana gave Jones an ultimatum, either rematch Reyes or move up to HW and Jones chose to move to HW, thats why the rematch didnt happen.
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Criticism indeed, never said he didn't.. Just that it's worthless.

Well cleaned out the division cannot be objectively quantified can it, it's my word against yours, theres no quantifiable way of knowing for sure.
You said he could have been considered to have cleaned out the division after Gus, but not after his next wins because of how you feel about judging.. So you've already agreed with me, he cleaned out the division at some point, I never said at what point he had cleaned out the division by... Regardless it doesn't matter I think he did, you don't.

For sure he relinquished the belt and didn't take the rematch, that doesn't change whether he did or did not clean out the division imo.
 
Jones isn't fighting anyone at any weight. How can you fight a guy who's suspended for steroids every other year and then takes over a year off and refuses to fight?
 
Jose Beehive said:
Criticism indeed, never said he didn't.. Just that it's worthless.

Well cleaned out the division cannot be objectively quantified can it, it's my word against yours, theres no quantifiable way of knowing for sure.
You said he could have been considered to have cleaned out the division after Gus, but not after his next wins because of how you feel about judging.. So you've already agreed with me, he cleaned out the division at some point, I never said at what point he had cleaned out the division by... Regardless it doesn't matter I think he did, you don't.

For sure he relinquished the belt and didn't take the rematch, that doesn't change whether he did or did not clean out the division imo.
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You suggested that the rematch didnt happen because it wasnt viewed as worthwhile but Dana did seem to consider it so, offered to it Jones and he turned it down.

A division in which a champion has a clear win over one contender 6 years previous, two very contested wins over others and hasnt fought anyone else close to the top of the rankings, I think you really struggle to claim thats "cleaned out".

You can have your opinion on the decisions of course the the reality is there being questionable is a very widly held opinion not limited to some small element on Sherdog.

http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/10877/Jon-Jones-vs-Dominick-Reyes
 
everybody knows hes ducking jones from the start
 
moreorless87 said:
You suggested that the rematch didnt happen because it wasnt viewed as worthwhile but Dana did seem to consider it so, offered to it Jones and he turned it down.

A division in which a champion has a clear win over one contender 6 years previous, two very contested wins over others and hasnt fought anyone else close to the top of the rankings, I think you really struggle to claim thats "cleaned out".

You can have your opinion on the decisions of course the the reality is there being questionable is a very widly held opinion not limited to some small element on Sherdog.
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If Dana wanted it that bad he would have made more of an effort to get it booked, look at what he's done with the LW belt and Khabib.. I don't believe for a second Dana would rather have booked the 2nd Reyes fight at the time if he'd known Jon wanted his next fight to be for the HW title.

It's my opinion, it can only be an opinion, there is no claim for cleaning, there's always a contender, there's always another fight in the division.. I've said i'm willing to concede that if he's not 'cleaned it out' going by what your criticisms are, then the the phrase alone is worthless and not even worth being contested..

why no issues with me stating Izzy cleaned out MW when the Yoel result is hotly contested? And he's not fighting Whittaker again when many think he should and is instead fighting a lower P4P ranked fighter.. If Jon fights Stipe or Francis next the ranking is higher than Reyes not lower.
 
I'm not a huge fan of Izzy as a person, but if he moves up and beats Jan it's pretty fucking impressive.

And saying hes looking to poach the title cuz Jan has 0 title defenses is a retarded take. There's not a single fighter on the roster that would pass up a title shot or try for anything but the lowest risk route available to them.
 
hbombfromhell said:
I don't get how moving up to fight new champs with 0 defences is thought highly upon when Jon and Israel were exchanging words for years and Israel wouldn't move up until Jon vacated because "he wasn't ready". Is he trying to age Jon out?

Jan's size advantage isn't going to mean very much here considering Israel has already devastated HW kickboxers and Jan is predominantly a striker.
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This is your takeaway? The fact that Izzy steps up this soon is commendable. Jon spent much of his career avoiding the HW. Izzy is now ahead of Jon.

I don't understand why you short sell Jan. He murdered Rockhold. Suddenly Rockhold is a can?
 
Lemmy Caution said:
This is your takeaway? The fact that Izzy steps up this soon is commendable. Jon spent much of his career avoiding the HW. Izzy is now ahead of Jon.

I don't understand why you short sell Jan. He murdered Rockhold. Suddenly Rockhold is a can?
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The only thing Izzy is ahead of Jones in is alphabetical order.
 
Jon Jones vacated the belt at August 17, 2020.

Israel Adesanya fought Costa at September 27, 2020.
 
Adesanya had to beat costa and romero for people to give him credit to take on Jones.
 
JJ isn't slipping he's just having a hard time to find motivation to take on more bums in LHW.

He wants a challenge so HW makes sense
 
"Poach"
Lmao

Filthy gerians kill an elephant just to make a set of ivory earrings

His relatives prob still eat eachother in the jungle somewhere
 
Lights Out 101 said:
But just think how much hype there will be for the SUPER SUPER fight if Izzy wins the LHW belt and Jon wins the HW belt. It would be the most anticipated title match of all time.
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I feel like this is the plan in the end. Though Izzy would need to put some weight on.
 
hbombfromhell said:
I don't get how moving up to fight new champs with 0 defences is thought highly upon when Jon and Israel were exchanging words for years and Israel wouldn't move up until Jon vacated because "he wasn't ready". Is he trying to age Jon out?

Jan's size advantage isn't going to mean very much here considering Israel has already devastated HW kickboxers and Jan is predominantly a striker.
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He has one title defense and the next middleweight fight is a rematch with a guy he dominated. It makes sense he'd prefer to become a two division champ.
 
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