- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 9,137
- Reaction score
- 1,917
Hey sherbos. With the constantly changing dynamics in the Middle East and global politics slowly shifting towards a new cold war type situation, what exactly are the pros and cons of America being in bed with Israel?
Historically there was the argument that they were going to be like Turkey, a beacon of secular liberalism used to influence a region with entrenched fundamentalism.
From a more vain perspective Americans get a nice place to vacation in the Middle East where they can go clubbing and enjoy all forms of American hedonism. They can even larp as disciples of Jesus roaming the desert and whatnot. Perhaps the upscaled realization of this is the Gaza resort which Trump memed about.
On the flip side there have been historic items of consideration which present it as a liability. For example, JFK was uncomfortable with Israel exerting too much influence among lobbyists in America and was uncomfortable with Israel having advanced military technology such as the nuclear bomb. The latter concern has been at least somewhat vindicated by subsequent data as Israel has on occasion tried to sell advanced American military technology to China.
Another historical potential liability was the issue raised by Nixon, that too closely aligning with Israel would alienate Egypt and other Muslim powers which would drive them into the arms of the Soviet Union. This ceased to be an issue in the 90s, yet now in the 20s with the rise of China the concern has revived in a new form. This has already manifested itself to some extent in the belt and road initiative, with Pakistan and Syria being prominent examples of Muslim countries deepening their ties and investments with China in the wake of opportunities sullied by America.
What about more recent developments though? Recently Hamas rolled the dice with their attack and the American response seems to have been full fledged support for Israel to do whatever they want in retaliation. Surely the Israelis promised decisive action, but has this come to fruition? Trump campaigned on an anti-war platform, and he must be mindful that some are interpreting the prolonged nature of the Gaza conflict as a sign that he has signed off on a senseless forever war analogous to the Iraq War and Afghanistan War which he is so critical of.
More recently Trump has been in Saudi Arabia striking a new trillion dollar investment deal, perhaps related with him no longer requiring the gulf Arabs to recognise Israel. Does this indicate that Trump has re-evaluated the great support he showed Israel in his first term?
Yet on the other hand it was only a few months ago that Trump appointed Rubio and Hegseth, both known to be hawkishly pro-Israel. Surely there is still an element of American politics which sees a benefit in the close relations. This seems to be backed up by American strikes on Houthi rebels who are aligned with Iran, Israel's prime enemy.
So how do you see things? Which way forward, American man?(fine, you pesky Maganadians can answer too).
Historically there was the argument that they were going to be like Turkey, a beacon of secular liberalism used to influence a region with entrenched fundamentalism.
From a more vain perspective Americans get a nice place to vacation in the Middle East where they can go clubbing and enjoy all forms of American hedonism. They can even larp as disciples of Jesus roaming the desert and whatnot. Perhaps the upscaled realization of this is the Gaza resort which Trump memed about.
On the flip side there have been historic items of consideration which present it as a liability. For example, JFK was uncomfortable with Israel exerting too much influence among lobbyists in America and was uncomfortable with Israel having advanced military technology such as the nuclear bomb. The latter concern has been at least somewhat vindicated by subsequent data as Israel has on occasion tried to sell advanced American military technology to China.
Another historical potential liability was the issue raised by Nixon, that too closely aligning with Israel would alienate Egypt and other Muslim powers which would drive them into the arms of the Soviet Union. This ceased to be an issue in the 90s, yet now in the 20s with the rise of China the concern has revived in a new form. This has already manifested itself to some extent in the belt and road initiative, with Pakistan and Syria being prominent examples of Muslim countries deepening their ties and investments with China in the wake of opportunities sullied by America.
What about more recent developments though? Recently Hamas rolled the dice with their attack and the American response seems to have been full fledged support for Israel to do whatever they want in retaliation. Surely the Israelis promised decisive action, but has this come to fruition? Trump campaigned on an anti-war platform, and he must be mindful that some are interpreting the prolonged nature of the Gaza conflict as a sign that he has signed off on a senseless forever war analogous to the Iraq War and Afghanistan War which he is so critical of.
More recently Trump has been in Saudi Arabia striking a new trillion dollar investment deal, perhaps related with him no longer requiring the gulf Arabs to recognise Israel. Does this indicate that Trump has re-evaluated the great support he showed Israel in his first term?
Yet on the other hand it was only a few months ago that Trump appointed Rubio and Hegseth, both known to be hawkishly pro-Israel. Surely there is still an element of American politics which sees a benefit in the close relations. This seems to be backed up by American strikes on Houthi rebels who are aligned with Iran, Israel's prime enemy.
So how do you see things? Which way forward, American man?(fine, you pesky Maganadians can answer too).
