Is Hearns the best boxer-puncher of all time?

[Boxing_paloney]

Boxer puncher=universal. One who has sound boxing fundamentals, yet still the brute force power of a puncher. An out or in- fighter can still be better in his specialization, but the boxer-puncher is not adverse to either way of fighting. He has the tools for it, even though he might prefer one over the other.

I'm a boxer puncher myself. My style has a solid foundation combined with puncher power. If you keep me on the outside, you have to get pass the jab. If you get me close, hold on to your fucking hat if I connect with a 1-2

Again I don't think you need the power so much, just the skill to land punches well. Young Floyd didn't have huge power, neither did Leonard really, but they were so good at placing combos they could score TKO's consistently. Although I'll agree it's a lot more common to see a boxer-puncher with power.

 

[mozfonky]

the term,boxer/puncher, is overused, always has been, especially by fighters themselves who can't accept that they have shortcomings. Naturally, anyone at the top level of the sport will have some kind of skills and some of them will have one punch kayo power, clubbing kayo power, cumulative power or decent power. Sugar Ray Robinson has often been called the best ever not because he was the greatest boxer ever because he wasn't the boxer or defensive wizard that Pep or Whitaker was, there have been fighters faster but you put all the attributes on a list and rate them, he comes out ahead of anyone. Hearns may have had a faster jab, maybe even a faster right hand, maybe, but he couldn't rattle off six-seven punch combinations and although his hook was ok, he used it for lining up the right more than as a power punch. Ray had power in both hands, and you know, there have been harder hitters too, but again, a top fighter has to have a mix of attributes, some of them mutually exclusive and or unlikely for a fighter having one strength (tall lanky fighters would tend to be better boxers than they are infighters, not always but usually). What made ray special was the combination of great speed, great power, great chin, great skill and great intangibles. You can't top that if you're like Ali and have the intagibles but not the all around no how or skill or power, or if you're pep and you have all that speed and skill but quit a couple times and rarely knocked out anyone. there are reasons ray was remembered as so special, it's a reason that guys like tommy, mayweather, roy jones are unlikely to top him in the future lists, he just had more or a combination of things.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Joe Louis and Ray Robinson would disagree.

Those 2 are what I like to call the "less evolved boxers". Great for their times but I've always believed boxers get better over the years as long as the sport stays somewhat competitive. Nutrition, training, PED's and overall understand of boxing.

 

[spacetime]

Great for their times but I've always believed boxers get better over the years as long as the sport stays somewhat competitive. Nutrition, training, PED's and overall understand of boxing.

Yes but that process is reversed for todays HWs. They are worse than they have ever been in modern times due to weak talent pool. People who would have boxed in the past nowdays do football or MMA.

 

[Absolut]

People who would have boxed in the past nowdays do football or MMA.

I hear this a lot, and am wondering if there is any data on it. Kickboxing has always been big in parts of Asia and Europe, I'm not sure there is a sudden loss there. Same from Brazil.

Dana calls Bonner/Griffin the turning point- that was what, 13 years ago? From a timing perspective would you see a shift yet?

 

[Seano]

I hear this a lot, and am wondering if there is any data on it. Kickboxing has always been big in parts of Asia and Europe, I'm not sure there is a sudden loss there. Same from Brazil.

Dana calls Bonner/Griffin the turning point- that was what, 13 years ago? From a timing perspective would you see a shift yet?

Well, how does one get into boxing? Basketball, football, baseball are thrown at you when you're a little kid. There's no boxing scholarships, no multimillion dollar contracts etc.

 

[spacetime]

I hear this a lot, and am wondering if there is any data on it. Kickboxing has always been big in parts of Asia and Europe, I'm not sure there is a sudden loss there. Same from Brazil.

Dana calls Bonner/Griffin the turning point- that was what, 13 years ago? From a timing perspective would you see a shift yet?

My cousin who is a former IBF champion said as much back in 2014. He mentioned Joshua as the only exception. The talent pool is horrendously low these days. It's probably higher in Kickboxing, cause it can't be any worse than it is today.

 

[spacetime]

TaeKwondo is experiencing the same crisis. I asked a TKD instructor what would happen if we took the elite 80s full contact fighters with a time machine and brought them here, and he admitted that they would kick modern day ass... "They had killer instinct in a completely different time with no safety measures".

 

[Absolut]

Well, how does one get into boxing? Basketball, football, baseball are thrown at you when you're a little kid. There's no boxing scholarships, no multimillion dollar contracts etc.

other than anecdotal stories, I don't know. There certainly isn't a feeder system like other sports.

I hear football youth numbers are plummeting, but again, I've not see data.

 

[Seano]

other than anecdotal stories, I don't know. There certainly isn't a feeder system like other sports.

I hear football youth numbers are plummeting, but again, I've not see data.

Kids are soft as fuck today. My daughter doesn't even have a gym class.

 

[Absolut]

TaeKwondo is experiencing the same crisis. I asked a TKD instructor what would happen if we took the elite 80s full contact fighters with a time machine and brought them here, and he admitted that they would kick modern day ass... "They had killer instinct in a completely different time with no safety measures".

a family friend was an elite kickboxer. if you want to push his buttons you mention modern day martial arts and he goes off on a rant about money for belts, strip malls, etc.

 

[Absolut]

Kids are soft as fuck today. My daughter doesn't even have a gym class.

my son got a black belt in TKD, and I had to show him how to properly make a fist.

 

[Seano]

my son got a black belt in TKD, and I had to show him how to properly make a fist.

My daughter isn't into any of that shit. I tried but none of it clicked with her. Exceptional student but no drive to compete at all.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Hearns was one of the best boxer punchers you could ever find yourself in a ring with imo. Even his biggest losses he made those fighters dig very deep to find a way. With a sturdier chin, who knows how much more glory could have come his way? As history stands, he'll always be remembered very fondly already, obviously.

 

[spacetime]

a family friend was an elite kickboxer. if you want to push his buttons you mention modern day martial arts and he goes off on a rant about money for belts, strip malls, etc.

Listen to this old timer who also boxed:

– I thought Karate was cool, today it's extremely watered down. I made my last national championship as a 46 year old. My preperation consisted of 3 months of cardio and 2 hours of Karate. The fact that I came home with a gold medal is a scandal, and says more about the state of modern karate, than it does about me.

 

[B0mbSquad]

Best? Idk, but both Duran and GGG fit the description.

 

[HandNoise]

Duran was a beast- doesn't get the skill/ defensive credit he deserves. He pressured and brawled a lot, but was a very skilled boxer. Hearns' KO of him was brutally scary.

I agree 100% Im a huge fan, but the fights he lost on points was for his eagerness to brawl, except for benitez who beat him at his own game. When he did intent to box, his slipping and head movement was insane, his combos were crazy, cocking back the right behind the jab to time and shoot that looping right and kill you off with his signature right uppercut combo, Beautiful.

Another honorable mention that never will get the cred he deserves is a prime Gomez, he could do it all! His skills were unreal if people would just bare to watch him, don’t know why he’s so overlooked, as Duran his slipping and movement was crazy at times impossible to touch, like Duran pin pointing behind the jab to shoot the straight right but follow more with the hook to body and head. The man had the perfect technique to drain and beat volume Mexican fighters till he took the John Travolta route and his lungs became ass, also might of been too small for 126.

Another good example Edwin Rosario before coke and coors light. Just a lot of crazy talented guys who get little to no cred but you can’t blame the people if these guys didn’t commit to their careers.

 

[spacetime]

I agree 100% Im a huge fan, but the fights he lost on points was for his eagerness to brawl, except for benitez who beat him at his own game. When he did intent to box, his slipping and head movement was insane, his combos were crazy, cocking back the right behind the jab to time and shoot that looping right and kill you off with his signature right uppercut combo, Beautiful.

Another honorable mention that never will get the cred he deserves is a prime Gomez, he could do it all! His skills were unreal if people would just bare to watch him, don’t know why he’s so overlooked, as Duran his slipping and movement was crazy at times impossible to touch, like Duran pin pointing behind the jab to shoot the straight right but follow more with the hook to body and head. The man had the perfect technique to drain and beat volume Mexican fighters till he took the John Travolta route and his lungs became ass, also might of been too small for 126.

Another good example Edwin Rosario before coke and coors light. Just a lot of crazy talented guys who get little to no cred but you can’t blame the people if these guys didn’t commit to their careers.

i like duran but common now. he could not box leonard the way hearns did. Duran was not a boxer puncher

 

[HandNoise]

i like duran but common now. he could not box leonard the way hearns did. Duran was not a boxer puncher

So how did he outpointed and completely kicked his ass the first fight and made him look like a zebra taking cover from a lion. Then Leonard got the green light that Duran bloated up over 40lbs partying in panama and called for the rematch immediately, then all a sudden schooled and danced circles around Duran to the point Duran looked like a fat girl chasing after a twinky in a short Panamanian guys body, and quit. The guy that just outpointed and outlanded you and beat you to the punch throughout the whole fight, that’s a hell of a difference.

Yeah it was his own fault but still leonard did’em dirty and he knew it why don’t you think Duran didn’t even wanted to look at the guy after the fight. Leonard admitted this too. Didn’t fight Duran again till 9 years later, never rematched Benitez, I like Leonard but he was a sneaky hoe man <Lmaoo>

 

[spacetime]

So how did he outpointed and completely kicked his ass the first fight and made him look like a zebra taking cover from a lion. Then Leonard got the green light that Duran bloated up over 40lbs partying in panama and called for the rematch immediately, then all a sudden schooled and danced circles around Duran to the point Duran looked like a fat girl chasing after a twinky in a short Panamanian guys body, and quit. The guy that just outpointed and outlanded you and beat you to the punch throughout the whole fight, that’s a hell of a difference.

Yeah it was his own fault but still leonard did’em dirty and he knew it why don’t you think Duran didn’t even wanted to look at the guy after the fight. Leonard admitted this too. Didn’t fight Duran again till 9 years later, never rematched Benitez, I like Leonard but he was a sneaky hoe man <Lmaoo>

Leonard brawled him the first fight, which was a silly mistake. He learned his lessons the rematches and Duran didn't stand a chance in those.