Is head movement necessary in Muay Thai?

FokaiMuayThai said:
Pornsaneh is not your typical Muay Thai fighter in Thailand. I think casual spectators love hin for his style, but the bettors probably don't care for him because he doesn't do high scoring techniques and his results are unpredictable.

John Wayne Parr has said on several occasions that in Muay Thai in Thailand low kicks are seen as a not so spectacular technique.
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Yeah, you're right, he's not a typical fighter, lazy post on my part to instigate convo

Body or head kick mixed with deft evasion is def the most 'beautiful' weapon by Thai standards, I'd say Lerdsilla is a good example of slipperyness

As for Thai style kicking being ineffective in mma?..... well there's a counter for everything isnt there, but fuck getting kicked in the ribs by a nak muay
 
Celestial Kid said:
Well there is a flaw with your statement because 1) floyd's style can be used in mma. 2) kicks are reduced in mma due to takedowns. 3) CK believes muay thai scoring takes away the potential and effectiveness of mauy thai. This is why he made the thread. Thai boxers dont use head movement muchlike slips and rolls. The excuse they give is "head kicks" or "knees". Perhaps its because they dont know how to slip or roll thats why. Its a mystery CK is trying to decipher.
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Elite technicians (and Nak Muays that dabbled in boxing) like Samart, Saenchai, Namsaknoi and Somrak all have head movement, Muay Thai is my favorite sport, but there is some truth in what you're saying, in Muay Thai the solution to punch attacks is often clinch and kicks, rarely slips, so many Nak Muays do not develop these skills that much.

IMO, it's hard to develop these skills to a high level if you train in MMA or Muay Thai, when you work with boxers you understand how much training in boxing it takes to know how and when to move your head.

My general point is that there is no art that teaches EVERYTHING at high level, just certain levels of talent and adaptability.
 
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TonyK said:
Elite technicians (and Nak Muays that dabbled in boxing) like Samart, Saenchai, Namsaknoi and Somrak all have head movement, Muay Thai is my favorite sport, but there is some truth in what you're saying, in Muay Thai the solution to punch attacks is often clinch and kicks, rarely slips, so many Nak Muays do not develop these skills that much.

IMO, it's hard to develop these skills to a high level if you train in MMA or Muay Thai, when you work with boxers you understand how much training in boxing it takes to know how and when to move your head.
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CK delved into this and asked guys who've lived and trained in Thailand before. This guy from Petchindee said he disliked it cuz you'll get kicked in the head. The other guy from sitsongpeenong told CK that he didn't learn that. Both learned similar stances. Hips squared, hands up (cheekbone or higher), rear foot up (45 degrees). With that said, the guy from petchindee told CK to adapt his stance to his physique and liking cuz everyone stands different.
 
TonyK said:
Elite technicians (and Nak Muays that dabbled in boxing) like Samart, Saenchai, Namsaknoi and Somrak all have head movement, Muay Thai is my favorite sport, but there is some truth in what you're saying, in Muay Thai the solution to punch attacks is often clinch and kicks, rarely slips, so many Nak Muays do not develop these skills that much.

IMO, it's hard to develop these skills to a high level if you train in MMA or Muay Thai, when you work with boxers you understand how much training in boxing it takes to know how and when to move your head.

My general point is that there is no art that teaches EVERYTHING at high level, just certain levels of talent and adaptability.
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Yes, CK is still new at MT. He wants to learn the art of 8 limbs. He learned some boxing so when he trained in MT, his MT trainer didn't like some of his head movement like ducking and slipping. He said CK might get kicked in the head. He also told CK to dodge & move around less because in MT, you have all weapons to deal with most attacks.
 
Well, Pernell Whittaker/James Toney style head movement WILL probably get you kicked in the head sooner or later, but subtle head movement and rolling with punches a bit is a great addition to a Nak Muay's arsenal.
 
TonyK said:
Well, Pernell Whittaker/James Toney style head movement WILL probably get you kicked in the head sooner or later, but subtle head movement and rolling with punches a bit is a great addition to a Nak Muay's arsenal.
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CK disagrees. CK believes that Pernell Whittaker and James toney's style can be used in MT. The head kick and knee stuff are blown out of proportion.
 
Celestial Kid said:
CK disagrees. CK believes that Pernell Whittaker and James toney's style can be used in MT. The head kick and knee stuff are blown out of proportion.
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A bit yeah, but it has a logical base. You'll have to have a nearly-inhuman talent to pull that off against a skilled Muay Thai fighter under MT (or even kickboxing) rules.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQugeU9Ofs

^ Dejdam looks like a good striker but notice his body kicks got caught and he got taken down for that. CK thinks body kick effectiveness is reduced in MMA. In fact, all kicks are besides maybe leg kicks and high kicks. Now, CK's fellow forumites might asked what is he trying to prove or gain? Well, CK is trying to discover a muay thai fighter or thai boxing style that works in MMA with the threat of takedowns. So head movement also applies when talking about muay thai application. CK also watches a lot of CMT to see how Thai boxing works with 4 oz gloves.
 
Celestial Kid said:
CK disagrees. CK believes that Pernell Whittaker and James toney's style can be used in MT. The head kick and knee stuff are blown out of proportion.
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That form of defense is used to evade punches, not kicks, knees, and more importantly elbows.
 
Snubnoze707 said:
That form of defense is used to evade punches, not kicks, knees, and more importantly elbows.
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Disagree. Open your mind and you'll become a great striker. Limit yourself and you become obscure. Of course, no one can learn from those greats anymore unless through lineage which is rare. One can only dream. But CK believes that their styles can work in muay thai.
 
Celestial Kid said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQugeU9Ofs

^ Dejdam looks like a good striker but notice his body kicks got caught and he got taken down for that. CK thinks body kick effectiveness is reduced in MMA. In fact, all kicks are besides maybe leg kicks and high kicks. Now, CK's fellow forumites might asked what is he trying to prove or gain? Well, CK is trying to discover a muay thai fighter or thai boxing style that works in MMA with the threat of takedowns. So head movement also applies when talking about muay thai application. CK also watches a lot of CMT to see how Thai boxing works with 4 oz gloves.
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Most CMT fighters are relatively low level guys...

Besides, people watch and discuss muay thai because they love it, they don't care if it works in MMA or in a street fight, just like fans of any other sport. They love the atmosphere, the tradition, relate to the fighters.
 
TonyK said:
Most CMT fighters are relatively low level guys...

Besides, people watch and discuss muay thai because they love it, they don't care if it works in MMA or in a street fight, just like fans of any other sport. They love the atmosphere, the tradition, relate to the fighters.
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Not really. CK understands that its a sport but he knows muay thai guys & they're confident about their fighting skills. They know or think they can fight but the thing is, when reality hits them, they become traumatized especially when they go against mma guys. What ends up happening is they believe that their ground game sucks or their wrestling sucks when in truth, its their stance, their positioning, fight iq, etc. these things can be fixed and they can be universal to all thai fighters. Once taught, muay thai will become the superior striking art.
 
CK should try staying in a low center of gravity like in MMA and be kicked to death by great kickers
 
Muay Thai is designed for Muay Thai rules, not MMA.

EVERYTHING has to be adapted to adjust to MMA...
 
Snubnoze707 said:
Muay Thai is designed for Muay Thai rules, not MMA.

EVERYTHING has to be adapted to adjust to MMA...
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Well said.

MT is a great striking art, but it definitely isn't the only one that has to do some adapting going to MMA. I had some problems myself at the boxing class since the teacher wanted me to have a very sideway stance. When I tried to use it in MMA class, it meant trouble. I also got kicked very often to the legs without having time to react. I made my stance more square and everything went easier after that (in MMA, boxing teacher still didn't like it)

Does CK train himself? Just a question.

Nevertheless, Heikki finds CK funny and enjoys most of his posts in some way.
 
Heikki Mustola said:
Well said.

MT is a great striking art, but it definitely isn't the only one that has to do some adapting going to MMA. I had some problems myself at the boxing class since the teacher wanted me to have a very sideway stance. When I tried to use it in MMA class, it meant trouble. I also got kicked very often to the legs without having time to react. I made my stance more square and everything went easier after that (in MMA, boxing teacher still didn't like it)

Does CK train himself? Just a question.

Nevertheless, Heikki finds CK funny and enjoys most of his posts in some way.
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Thank you Heikki. CK trains in thai boxing under a nak muay from petchindee.
 
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