Is having children.....

[Macalpinerules]

Is having children an act of selfishness?

So for example, it doesn't take much time living in this world to know its anything but fair. Every person will experience fear and depression. Every person will experience psychological and physical abuse. And every person will face death.

We know this deep down inside. But many people still bring others to take part in this existence knowing how it ends. Isn't it selfish?

 

[IDL]

It places you in a position where you have to provide for others and put their needs above yours.

So I wouldn't think so.

 

[Macalpinerules]

It places you in a position where you have to provide for others and put their needs above yours.

So I wouldn't think so.

I feel like most people chalk that up to being an expense for something they are getting in return. People who are parents always say the birth of their child was the best moment of their lives. The cost of the child is simply the cost of the pleasure one receives from becoming a parent.

 

[zackryder]

depends depending on wat perspective ur coming from

in the sense of biological reproduction and the need to pass on genetic material to offspring, no. the goal of all organisms is to increase fitness

now from a socioeconomic perspective in regard to the worlds resources, yes. worlds natural resources r dwindling and conservation of mass states that there is a finite amount of resources available. also uneven distribution of wealth & a increased population with large disparities between the rich and the poor causes alot of social issues & anomie includin but not limited to inequities in health, decrease in social mobility, & environmental justice

some issues got touched on in this thread

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f48/selfish-immoral-have-children-3039599/

 

[cooks1]

Is having children an act of selfishness?

This came up a few years ago, and it was an interesting discussion.

Having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. Not having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. But the motivations for either decision can be either or both.

A person who chooses not to have children because they want to have more money so they can live a more indulgent lifestyle is doing so for selfish reasons. Not passing any judgement on that mind you-it's a perfectly valid life choice- it's just selfish motivation.

And a person who has children so they have someone to love them, or take care of them when they are older, or so they wont be alone, is having children for selfish reasons.

A person who makes a conscious decision not to procreate to maintain a sustainable global population or for environmental reasons would be choosing to not have children for unselfish reasons.

And a person who has children so they can give love and devote themselves to, so that humanity might continue to thrive, would be having children for unselfish reasons.

So you could have 2 people doing the exact same thing, and one of them would be selfish and the other not. But here is the rub. Selfish people are not selfish in only one aspect of their lives. It will permeate into most aspects of their life. And the same with selfless people. This is the answer to the age old question- Why are there lots of selfish assholes with and without children, and also loads of wonderful generous people with and without children?

It gets even more complicated though when a person choose not to have children so they can give more to themselves AND others. Or have children to both give and receive love. That is a really quirky breed of human called a wonderful selfish, selfless asshole.

 

[dabausplaya]

I'm sure you were expecting this response, but

[YT]o8ZnCT14nRc[/YT]

 

[HARRISON_3]

I knew this topic sounded familiar.

 

[MarcoW]

No.
I'm much happier having existed, then had I not existed.
To argue otherwise would be stupid.


Besides some places like Japan are losing people, having children there is good for society.
Even in Canada we only grow because of immigrants.

 

[zackryder]

This came up a few years ago, and it was an interesting discussion.

Having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. Not having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. But the motivations for either decision can be either or both.

A person who chooses not to have children because they want to have more money so they can live a more indulgent lifestyle is doing so for selfish reasons. Not passing any judgement on that mind you-it's a perfectly valid life choice- it's just selfish motivation.

And a person who has children so they have someone to love them, or take care of them when they are older, or so they wont be alone, is having children for selfish reasons.

A person who makes a conscious decision not to procreate to maintain a sustainable global population or for environmental reasons would be choosing to not have children for unselfish reasons.

And a person who has children so they can give love and devote themselves to, so that humanity might continue to thrive, would be having children for unselfish reasons.

goddam. eloquently put

 

[dabausplaya]

No.
I'm much happier having existed, then had I not existed.
To argue otherwise would be stupid.

You would be unhappy if you were never born? That's only something you can think in retrospect.

 

[Macalpinerules]

This came up a few years ago, and it was an interesting discussion.

Having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. Not having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. But the motivations for either decision can be either or both.

A person who chooses not to have children because they want to have more money so they can live a more indulgent lifestyle is doing so for selfish reasons. Not passing any judgement on that mind you-it's a perfectly valid life choice- it's just selfish motivation.

And a person who has children so they have someone to love them, or take care of them when they are older, or so they wont be alone, is having children for selfish reasons.

A person who makes a conscious decision not to procreate to maintain a sustainable global population or for environmental reasons would be choosing to not have children for unselfish reasons.

And a person who has children so they can give love and devote themselves to, so that humanity might continue to thrive, would be having children for unselfish reasons.

Fair assessment. I just happen to think people who become parents fall more into the category of "take care of me when I'm older, I don't want be alone, I want to experience the pleasure of creating another human being" camp Rather than the "I want to advance humanity and love unconditionally" camp.

 

[MarcoW]

You would be unhappy if you were never born? That's only something you can think in retrospect.

I would have 0 happy experiences if I never existed.
Even if I only had 1 happy experience in my life, that is an infinite times more.

 

[Macalpinerules]

This came up a few years ago, and it was an interesting discussion.

Having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. Not having children is neither selfish nor unselfish. But the motivations for either decision can be either or both.

A person who chooses not to have children because they want to have more money so they can live a more indulgent lifestyle is doing so for selfish reasons. Not passing any judgement on that mind you-it's a perfectly valid life choice- it's just selfish motivation.

And a person who has children so they have someone to love them, or take care of them when they are older, or so they wont be alone, is having children for selfish reasons.

A person who makes a conscious decision not to procreate to maintain a sustainable global population or for environmental reasons would be choosing to not have children for unselfish reasons.

And a person who has children so they can give love and devote themselves to, so that humanity might continue to thrive, would be having children for unselfish reasons.

Fair assesment. I just happen to think people fall more into the "take care of me when I'm older, I don't want to be alone, I want to feel the pleasure of creating another human" camp rather than the "positively advance the human race and love unconditionally camp".

 

[zackryder]

No.
I'm much happier having existed, then had I not existed.
To argue otherwise would be stupid.


Besides some places like Japan are losing people, having children there is good for society.
Even in Canada we only grow because of immigrants.

most developed countries have stagnant or slowly increasing populations due to urbanization/industrialized societies. advances/improvements in healthcare, nutrition, sanitation, and wages decrease death rates while increase in contraception/womens rights decrease birthrates. as a result both birth and death rates are low

 

[dabausplaya]

I would have 0 happy experiences if I never existed.
Even if I only had 1 happy experience in my life, that is an infinite times more.

There would be no "you" to even realize these things. We can't choose to be born or not, so I just think the argument is silly.

 

[Macalpinerules]

No.
I'm much happier having existed, then had I not existed.
To argue otherwise would be stupid.


Besides some places like Japan are losing people, having children there is good for society.
Even in Canada we only grow because of immigrants.

You don't know what it was like before you were born. Also your parents likely didn't decide to have you because they thought it was gonna bring you happiness. They likely had you because they thought is was gonna make them happy. Your future feelings probably weren't even an afterthought.

 

[platfox]

Selfish? Nah, it costs $10 to have someone wake up, dress, feed and take your kids to school. A selfish person would not put up that dough.

 

[cooks1]

goddam. eloquently put

Thank You kind sir.

I was not quite finished when I wrote that, for your perusal, here is the rest of it

So you could have 2 people doing the exact same thing, and one of them would be selfish and the other not. But here is the rub. Selfish people are not selfish in only one aspect of their lives. It will permeate into most aspects of their life. And the same with selfless people. This is the answer to the age old question- Why are there lots of selfish assholes with and without children, and also loads of wonderful generous people with and without children?

It gets even more complicated though when a person choose not to have children so they can give more to themselves AND others. Or have children to both give and receive love. That is a really quirky breed of human called a wonderful selfish, selfless asshole.

 

[MarcoW]

I would have 0 happy experiences if I never existed.
Even if I only had 1 happy experience in my life, that is an infinite times more.

There would be no "you" to even realize these things. We can't choose to be born or not, so I just think the argument is silly.

Its not an argument, anyone with logic would have wanted to be born.
The gift to perceive time, space and reality is something worth more than anything else.

If you never existed you never existed, no happiness no sadness.
What fool would take nothing over something?
I would even take pain over nothing...
Oh wait that's a 3 days grace song.

 

[MarcoW]

You don't know what it was like before you were born. Also your parents likely didn't decide to have you because they thought it was gonna bring you happiness. They likely had you because they thought is was gonna make them happy. Your future feelings probably weren't even an afterthought.

That's a big assumption, as I am considering it and I am their child.


Also, am I too assume you think there is some awesome soul waiting room where all the unborn people hang out having orgies?