Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by peidro223, Nov 1, 2010.
Will talin this supplement make a noticeable difference?
Well lets put it this way... I've been taking 3000mg of it for a few months now along with vitamin C and have seen no significant improvement save for one week once I started combining it with the C. In my opinion...save your money and try something else.
So because it didn't work for you, in your opinion no one should ever take this supplement for joint flexibility ever again? Awesome advice! TS, it'll cost you 40$ max to try it for 3 months. Plus, high amounts of fish oil. Give it a go.
It will help joints and keep them not as sore as without it but by itself I don't feel as though it would help to improve flexibility (although less sore joints could result in you being able to push your flexibility further)
This is the best case scenario. Expect nothing more.
Isn't that what should be expected? No supplement is going to be a "miracle pill" and suddenly increase flexibility. Dietary supplements are meant to be taken to support your training, not do it for you.
With that said, I'd say that adding pycnogenol would enhance the joint flexibility benefits of glucosamine alone.
The OP seemed to imply the glucosamine in and of itself was a "flexibility enhancer." This is true only insofar as your flexibility is hampered by joint pain. It is not going to increase flexibility in and of itself.
On balance, the evidence regarding glucosamine efficacy is rather poor.
You're a tool. There's many people who have had crap results with glucosamine. Did I say no one should ever try it or take it again? No...what I did was give my OPINION, which last time I checked is allowed here. And in my opinion, there are other things the TS could try before taking glucosamine which by the way requires you to take it for at least 4 weeks before even beginning to see results, which I've never seen. Don't talk to me about crap advice when you push GNC down everyone's throat and tell people to take 10 grams of creatine on workout days and 5 on non-workout days, when all you need is 5 everyday. I'm sure you'd LOVE to see the TS waste $40. As turbozed said, the scientific evidence regarding glucosamine being overly effective is rather poor.
Of course it won't.
Flexibility training on the other hand has been shown to make you more flexible... ... ...
...slowly backing away from crazy person
Crazy or not, at least he's not going to spend money on something that doesn't work.
Turbo, I definitely agree that for any new supplement the burden of proof is to prove it is effective, rather than prove it is not.
That being said, based on all the research I've seen, and while it is obvious it doesn't have spectacular results, I'm not convinced if it's completely ineffective or not. For people with joint issues, considering that articular cartilage damage is a widely non-reversible process (so the chance of a possible aid to slow down it's degeneration is important), suggesting they try it for 3-4 months and decide for themselves is not a bad recommendation.
I think that's the most insidious part about glucosamine 'treatment.' It's so cheap that people use the rationale that 'while the evidence isn't really that good, my joints hurt a lot so I don't care if I have to spend a couple of bucks because maybe, just maybe, it'll work for me.'
Thus, even if it doesn't work, people don't get upset about it. Nobody is individually invested enough to expose it as ineffective. However, in the aggregate, glucosamine is being marketed like crazy (e.g., joint juice, glucosamine in dog food, etc.) and making tons of money. So the companies, working on scant evidence, are making a killing off of the public, if not on an individual.
My research into it showed that some effectiveness for joint relief was shown in the earliest studies (or study) and that subsequent studies showed no significant effectiveness. By that time, the genie was out of the bottle and glucosamine was in the supplement zeitgeist. No mechanism has been proposed and tested for how it would work. In my opinion, glucosamine is as effective as a sugar pill.
This study here isn't very old:
What is interesting about that study is that the sample is actual athletes. The problem with glucosamine studies, at least as far as athletic populations (like here on SD) are concerned, is that they are mostly focused on sedentary populations with osteoarthritis. Since articular cartilage damage is widely non-reversible, and since the way the articular cartilage is "getting fed" is not through blood supply, but through the intra-articular fluid, there is an actual possibility it may benefit active athletes without very extensive articular cartilage degeneration, as opposed to sedentary people with advanced osteoarthritis.
I'm not saying it's conclusive and I totally agree with you on the comments about basing a very widespread glucosamine marketing on nebulous claims, but I am not convinced it is as effective as a sugar pill for all purposes either.
I have been taking a pack of Animal Flex pills each day in addition to a multi-vitamin and fish oil for a couple months. I can really tell if I skip the multi.
I'm 45 & sit at a computer all day and then go to BJJ workout only twice a week. I started BJJ about the same time as the Flex. The family and I have history of joint issues, so it's hard to say, but I'm not bound up like I have gotten in the past. I actually feel pretty darn good.
I would say, like others here, try it for 30-60 days. If possible, have that be the only change. That way you can better attribute the effects to the supplement.
I also need to look into helping my body recover. Gatorade & Muscle Milk after workout is ok, but I think I can do better. That's another thread.
Edit: just noticed how old this thread is...
I've been looking at the research for this stuff for some time, mostly drive by the fact that I have joint problems and some arthritis. I've not found convincing evidence that it works. That study for which the abstract is quoted is one of the few promising studies and I got a little excited by it when I first saw it myself. But then I saw it in a document from the EFSA who concluded:
"The Panel considers that no conclusions can be drawn from this study for the scientific substantiation of an effect of glucosamine on maintenance of joint cartilage."
Furthermore, on the methodology used:
"The cross-sectional study was performed to assess the validity of type II collagen fragments in urine as outcome measures of joint damage. Urinary concentrations of type II collagen fragments were assessed in 21 male soccer players and in 10 male college students who did not participate in any college athletics. Urinary concentrations of CTX-II, but not of C2C, were reported to be significantly higher in soccer players than in the control subjects (p<0.01), whereas urinary concentrations of CPII were not significantly different between the groups. The ratio of CTX-II/CPII in soccer players was significantly higher than that in controls (p<0.05). The Panel considers that the evidence provided does not establish that changes in urinary concentrations of type II collagen fragments can be used to predict joint cartilage degradation."
If you're interested in reading up on it, the document is useful: http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/2691.pdf
Like all the other reviews I've read, it's disappointing news for glucosamine. I wish it wasn't. I wish there were some safe supps that were worth taking but if there are, this isn't one of them as far as I can tell.
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