Is forcibly holding someone against a fence “dominating” them?

[The Don]

If you are "controlling" your opponent but not threatening to improve position or doing any damage, its neutral to me. You aren't winning a fight by doing that. If someone pressed his opponent up against the cage for the entire fight and no real effective striking happened and neither fighter threatened to finish the fight or even come close with threatening subs? Fuck that fight and both fighters. Its a draw to me.

Way more fights should be viewed as draws if their isn't a decisive victor. Close decisions are trash and ruin this sport. Make guys go for the win. Too many passive fighters just seem happy to be in a fight and aren't looking to finish it.

Hmm. This is a really interesting take.
In a professional, sanctioned fight I'd love for this to be implemented but might be challenging and might give even more incompetent scoring and discrepancies in judging. How would you define "effective striking" in a grappling situation. Would you have to posture up and land bombs for it to be considered "effective striking" ? Do arm punches that may not do a lot of initial damage at first but opened up a cut or broke the nose or opened up a submission from accumulative strikes count as ineffective strikes? The fear of a draw really is interesting nonetheless.

As for the sentence highlighted in red, does controlling another trained professional fighter against their will for the majority of the bout thus neutralizing their offense really not considered winning? Is implementing your own game plan so well that it has resulted in a lull in the action because you've pinned your opponent to the ground that he is unable to do anything, no matter how boring it maybe, considered not dominating?

 

[Portland8242]

Usman holding Woodley on the fence and battering him with 30 right hands to the body - very dominating, no question about it.

Holding Masvidal on the fence and stomping his feet and shouldering his face - not so dominant lol.

 

[campbecc]

no it's not unless they are also doing damage. You can't really compare it to real fight because there are time limits in MMA.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

yeah, but so what? if the guy can keep going with a broken foot and the opponent just keeps stamping on it, instead of using that injury to set up a finish, that's just one more reason to not score for it.

i get what you're saying, but i'm just pointing out wouldn't the foot stomp and every foot stomp after the broken foot become a significant strike? i mean, it's doing a lot of damage.

 

[kingmob6]

As long as you throw in some toe stumps, its a dominant victory.

 

[kuroro]

i get what you're saying, but i'm just pointing out wouldn't the foot stomp and every foot stomp after the broken foot become a significant strike? i mean, it's doing a lot of damage.

i think the solution is to just arbitrarily declare footstamps ineffective offense, even if it is effective.

 

[mma sharingan]

casual

Far from it, competed more than your fatass, I just dont respect those that fight to not fight, I can respect the art of boxing and what izzy does with the art of hitting and not getting hit but hugging/holding to a win is a lil bitch move, call me just bleed but I like people that go in their to fight.

 

[MichaelT]

If someone holds you in any position and you can't do anything about it, you definitely feel dominated, they don't have to hit you or do anything else imo. Anyone who ever tried fighting a big brother or uncle, or an older kid should know, when someone can hold you in place against your will, you feel like a bitch

 

[fastone]

Far from it, competed more than your fatass, I just dont respect those that fight to not fight, I can respect the art of boxing and what izzy does with the art of hitting and not getting hit but hugging/holding to a win is a lil bitch move, call me just bleed but I like people that go in their to fight.

then you should know that the guy being held against the fence or on the ground is the one stalling, not the other way around. ..try kickboxing or some other stand up sport.

 

[arcadeperfect]

It's the least dominant when you compare it to other forms of dominance like effective striking, and actually taking someone down and controlling on top. It's also the lamest way to fight.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

A show of hands here.

If you got into a street fight and the other guy held you against the wall for 25 minutes, would you say you got your ass kicked?

Sometimes when guys have angry girlfriends try to beat them up People hold them against the wall until they calmed down.

Obviously the guy against the wall doesn’t like it and can’t stop it.

What say you Sherdog?

As someone who instructed krav maga' back in teh day, the whole comparing to street adaption from sport is . A blast double leg towards a a concrete wall on the sidewalk can crack a dude's skull.
don't forget no rounds, no time limit, no ref. no warm up
I know I'm not giving a clear answer, but thats the thing, the streets have no rules and

 

[The Schmoop]

I’m a firm believer that being controlled on the ground or pressed against the fence for the duration of fight is more dominant than the fighter executing their game plan. How judges never award fights to fighters being controlled the entire time is ludicrous.

 

[RogerB08]

If he can't stop you from doing, sure it's dominating them: it's boring af, but it's still imposing ones will.

 

[The Schmoop]

No it's a pussies way of fighting, same as lay n pray, it shouldnt even be aloud, it's literally going into a fight to not fight... biitch mindset and I laugh any time these treehuggers n crotch sniffers think they're remotely badass, I've seen 5 year olds fight with better killer instinct than em. If rawdogging was legal then maybe tings would be different.

So what you’re saying is your grappling skills are dogshit?

 

[Blond]

If you're landing consistent offense - then it is dominant. If all you're doing is holding on to your opponent for dear life in order to keep them on the fence - then it's a stalemate.

 

[Beastos]

Somebody held this guy against a fence and traumatized him.

yea, he was probably facing towards the fence though

 

[ArtemV]

Of course it is. You're draining your opponent of energy, which is why Khabib was successful - he is a very good clinch wrestler. Even if he isn't taking you down, he makes you carry his weight and always makes you work.

 

[Turdbucket]

You say street fight but I hear getting thrown out by a bouncer or something like that.
In a street fight you dig your finger into the grabbers eyes unless you are Artem Lobov, then you are fucked.
Against a bouncer you let them hug you or you will get fucked up badly.

 

[tony pepperoni]

Dummy of the day.

Always the guys with the anime avi's that have to prove their a badass

 

[MikeyB]

I don't think its that. I think just beccause you're a good open mat grappler doesn't necessarily make you a great mma grappler and most of the best grapplers are no where near the best mma grapplers. The ones that are grappling in mma at the elite level seem to be newer to grappling.

Yes, usman is dominate but that's due to his strength in the grappling and clinch exchanges. Most of them learn how to stay in safe poistions and that's it. They don't look to advance position because they're not that skilled to advance anyway. The ones that do have been doing it for a long time or they're generational talents that pick it up quick like jones.

I doubt usman, colby, or woodley could threaten an armbar while at the same time having a triangle the way khabib did to gaethje or any of their past opponents. I doubt usman could get an armbar from the crucifix the way jon did against vitor.

I think you're a bit naive. These guys aren't going to risk losing the position to attempt a submission and are happy to grind to victory. I guarentee they are BJJ savvy enough to do those things.

There's a flipside too. It takes two and if the guy on the bottom or against the fence is happy to stalemate, the top guy doesn't have a lot of choice. It's chess, you don't smash your queen out against smart players you finesse it.