Is DJ the P4P GOAT?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Ar145984, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Ar145984

    Ar145984 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    First, I would like to preface this discussion by elaborating on the design of the title. When I say pound for pound I am referring to a complete mixed martial artist, skilled in a variety of disciplines, who if the average fighter in that division modeled themselves after, they would be at their elite potential. The pound for pound best fighter, therefore, naturally represents this beautiful mixture of design and skill. This is why, for example, I cannot include someone like Anthony Rumble Johnson. Because, although Rumble is a serious threat by boxing and kicking techniques, he does not possess the skillful defenses in the grappling arts and has suffered as a result of it. For the continuation of this post I will elaborate further on the intricaces and skills that Demetrious Johnson displays, but first I would like to digress a tiny bit into another discussion. Demetrious Johnson posseses a quality that very few high level fighters seem to possess, and that is a sense of character. When I say character, I do not refer to the a person in a novel, play, or movie as defined by Webster. Instead, I am describing an individual's mental and moral qualtiies that infilitrate their personaliy and ultimately make up who they are as a person. I also do not mean the "character" that people put on media, such as Ronda Rousey for example. While I can understand why fighters choose to pursue attitudes, it still is in some character distasteful when they are being dishonest. This is the entertainment business, so it makes sense that someone like DJ who is an honest average guy would not be that entertaining. But that isnt to say he isn't true or well-spirited, something that all of us can appreciate. When was the last time DJ was pulled over because he hit someone with a car? When has DJ been stopped for banned USADA substances? When has DJ done anything to anyone with vile contempt besides doing his job? Name me a few instances please, I would like to know.

    DJ is very real. Demetrious Johnson is one of the very few fighters who boast beyond their own talents and have a displactifactual representation of respect towards his fellow fighters. Here is an excellent example. When Demetrious Johnson was put on "UFC NOW" to list what he believed were the best p4p fighter, what did he do? Ask yourself this, what do you think he did? He put himself at number 5, and put fighters like Fedor, Jones, and GSP above him. I believe this requires an amazing discipline that we have YET to see in fighters like Ronda Rousey, for example. Ronda would have put herself at the very very top of the list. So would jon jones. Unfortunately, so would Conor McGregor. But I have nothing against Conor, he is still a great fighter just lacks the variety of diciplines that other fighters like Demetrious have. I don't even consider the Nate Diaz fight to be that legitimate to be honest, but I digress. Demetrious is a very humble athlete, and his intentions are simply to provide for his family by doing what he is elite in, fighting. But before we continue on our discussion, lets break down WHY other fighters cannot possibly be the best p4p fighters on the planet. First, let's start with the obvious, the heavyweight division. Fighters, like Fabricio Werdum, are extremely talented. An elite at BJJ. But ask yourself this, how great is the HW division anyways? There are guys with null records at the TOP 10 [mark hunt] Fighters at best get 3 fight win streaks and drop. Cain was the only legit contender, next to JDS. Reem is now on an impressive feat as well. Stipe won the title, but how long can this last? Ask yourself this though, how great is Werdum's striking really? It's alright, but look at his competition, he got ko'd easily. Against competent strikers he usually loses (ignoring JDS). This is why the HW division cannot possibly contain a top contender, it is simply impossible. The closest fighter in the HW division to being considered of the variety of the elite divisions of fighter classes in terms of skills and specs would probably be Fedor. Fedor was talented in many divisions, including BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and kicks. He was talented in the clinch and faced a variety of competition. But to revert to my previous discussion, Fedor was ages ago and cannot represent the current best P4P fighter because modern fighters have incorporated far more than past fighters. Furthermore, after his controversial fight with Maldonado there are tints of doubt in his potential in the UFC. So, we eliminate the heavyweight division. We can then move on to individual contenders. Jon jones, for example, cannot possibly be the best p4p fighte ron the planet of earth. The reason for this contention that I raise against Jon Jones has to do, quite simply for the fact, of the manner of which Jones fights. Jones relies heavily on his physical capabilities and status relative to his oppponents. His style focuses on taking advantage of a ridiculously long reach (tied with an almost 7 foot tall guy) and relatievely good height. This means that MOST people cannot incorporate a similar style. Jones style works best because of his individual body type, unlike Demetrious. Now I see where you're arguing next. "How can a 5'3 manlet therefore represent me!! hur hur". Here is the thing, Demetrious is normal sized relative to his competition. So his skills and techniques are applicable for the standard in his division, not so with Jones for example. This is the crucial breaking point between DJ and JJ. If I took someone and told them to learn from JJ, and someone to learn from DJ. When I take the JJ student and DJ student, both same heights and reaches, to fight. You bet your anus that the DJ student would win! Why is this the case? Because Demetrious has displayed in a variety of fights an enormous arsenal of techniques in different diciplines including brazilian jiujutsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, both catch and greco. Jon Jones has also demeonstrated skill, but AGAIN, a large part of it has to do with his size relative to his opponents. Look at how Jones performed against OSP and Gustaffson, some of his worst performances to this current date. But even further, and most important, Jones was busted for illegal substance use. This to me ultimately refutes P4P discussions. How do we know if hes really that atlaneted if he was simply on ths juice? Fighters in the past have looked insanely skilled on juice and then the opposite while off of it. Now that we have begun our basic introducty regarding the differences between jon jones and demetrious johnson, lets continue FURTHER as to WHY the differences between these athletes warrents DJ as the best p4p fighter. Now, I hear you immediately, "but wait, Dominic Cruz beat Demetrious Johnson!". Arguably, yes, Cruz did defeat demetrious, but DJ was fighting in a division not suitable for him. Cruz had almost 6 inches of height over DJ, as he does for most his opponents. Like a great deal of "Top fighters", cruz fights in a division where he provides himself an advantage to fight his opponents. Not so with Demetrious. Demetrious is not taller, longer, or bigger than his opponents.

    He is simply better. Hold your horses, I know what you're going to say next "So basically the bigger guy is better". Arguably, I disagree with this premise, as we have seen some. But on average, it is a difficult thing to overcome. However, let us also include the fact that Cruz is an elite champion who is an expert in evasion. Demetrious certainly tried his best. Let us also include the following information in our continuing section. Demetrious Johnson of today is far different than Demetrious Johnson of years ago. The new DJ is elite of elite, crisp of crisp. He finishes subs in the last second. Dominates former Champion defeaters. He completly nuliifies his opponents in their game and demolishes them embarrasing. I say to the crowd. How many champions have reperesented DJ in the past few years? Very few. Take his opponent, Kyoji Horigochi. Kyoji was an elite division champion of Japan. A samurai of their country. Demetrious DECIMATED Kyoji in their brutal war and finished him at the end of the fight. Kyoji was embarrased by DJ, shortly after everyone caled Kyoji overhyped. So what did Horigochi do? He destroyeed his next opponent like it was a toy. What about Cejudo? The eltie grappler? Destroyed in round one. Demetrious Johnson is NOT to be toyed with. Let's finally start deriving our facts into an ultimate conclusion. The ultimate facts are the following. Demetrious Johnson is potentially the greatest fighter currently on the planet. Considering his abilities relative on a fair playing field, he is the pound for pound most skilled fighter in the entire UFC roster. There are no other fighters that can arguably even TOUCH Demetrious Johnson in terms of his marketability as a skilled fighter. To argue against this point is to immediately admit defeat, quite an embarrassing thing to do may I add. I ask the crowd. Point out exactly where in my arguments I have made significant errors. Sure, I accept, I may be a bit crude and honest in my discussion, but fault me for my honesty, not for the facts. If you are to raise an argument I simply ask you to elaborate your argument in a clean , short and precise manner as to not waste my time. Arguments that have been raised include some which I have already answered in my post. And if you cannot simply read words then, sorry, I cannot help you. additional arguments I have not touched include the "depth" of the division. Flyweight being a weak division is a false premise. Flyweight is deep. Kyoji is a former champion. Jon Dodson demolished the former bantamweight champaion. Henry Cejudo was an undefeated elite gold medalist champion of the planet before being demolished by demetrious in a mere round. Joseph Benavidez was an extremely dangerous character in both bantamweight and flyweight, and was defeated twice embarrassingly by Demetrious Johnson! GO AHEAD! Argue against that premise. Argue it as much as you want. But swallow your load to admit that Heavyweight division is a much weaker division. The Heavyweight division is no where near the quality, so would a character like Werdumimmediately fall under the Flyweights. Yes, Werdum is much less skilled than Demetrious Johnson, as is Stipe and overeem. Argue this point and you will be pronounced as an eratic individual. I will accept the following information. That welterweight and lighweight division are deeper than Flyweight, But as of yet we have yet to find a contender who is as elite as Demetirous in these divisions, ala Khabib. Khabib does have the potential but he has shown a bit of one-sidedness that Demetrious is not currently hsowing . So even Khabib fails in this document To conclude the discussion, please note the former statements. It is in the mutual interest of intellectual pursuit of mixed martial arts that I make this post. I think we can all benefit from a friendly discussion of the facts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
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  2. Hans Gercmiov

    Hans Gercmiov Steel Belt

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    Good god I'm not reading that.
     
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  3. SirKratos

    SirKratos Silver Belt

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    Wait, don't you think its Conor?

    Seriously tho, DJ is awesome. I don't think he is the GOAT yet but he's climbing right up there.
     
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  4. Luger

    Luger Rabbi of Platinum Nation Banned

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    Never heard of him
    Edit: I looked him up and found this

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  5. helltoupee

    helltoupee Black Belt

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    Didn't read.

    But P4P is bullshit. As if Mighty Mouse would keep all his advantages if he all of a sudden gained 100lbs.
     
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  6. John Wayne's Teeth

    John Wayne's Teeth Green Gucci Suit Platinum Member

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    Pretty funny. Not very subtle though
     
  7. Arm Barbarian

    Arm Barbarian Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    Holy collosal wall of unending paragraph Batman.

    [​IMG]

    Break that shit up up brah.
     
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  8. BoosieBoo

    BoosieBoo Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Paragraphs mother fucker.





























    Paragraphs.
     
  9. MMAAAM

    MMAAAM Banned Banned

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    Yes but fuck you and your wall of text.
     
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  10. $uicideboy$

    $uicideboy$ ROPE GANG Banned

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    if u wrote all that gj we shouldnt discourage that stuff u feel me
     
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  11. Primitivo

    Primitivo Third World Prince

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  12. Guardian MMA

    Guardian MMA Purple Belt

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    Honestly though I think his SKILL level and athleticism is only matched by Jose Aldo.
    In that regard I have MM and Aldo as best and most proven p4p... Jones too if we are allowing people who popped
     
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  13. NightwingBJJ

    NightwingBJJ R.I.P To The King II Long.Live.GU€RNICA

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    @Charles Manson it's time to debut that gif;)
     
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  14. CereserBr

    CereserBr Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    ??? :)
     
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  15. Roca

    Roca Banned Banned

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    First, I would like to preface this discussion by elaborating on the design of the title. When I say pound for pound I am referring to a complete mixed martial artist, skilled in a variety of disciplines, who if the average fighter in that division modeled themselves after, they would be at their elite potential. The pound for pound best fighter, therefore, naturally represents this beautiful mixture of design and skill. This is why, for example, I cannot include someone like Anthony Rumble Johnson. Because, although Rumble is a serious threat by boxing and kicking techniques, he does not possess the skillful defenses in the grappling arts and has suffered as a result of it. For the continuation of this post I will elaborate further on the intricaces and skills that Demetrious Johnson displays, but first I would like to digress a tiny bit into another discussion. Demetrious Johnson posseses a quality that very few high level fighters seem to possess, and that is a sense of character. When I say character, I do not refer to the a person in a novel, play, or movie as defined by Webster. Instead, I am describing an individual's mental and moral qualtiies that infilitrate their personaliy and ultimately make up who they are as a person. I also do not mean the "character" that people put on media, such as Ronda Rousey for example. While I can understand why fighters choose to pursue attitudes, it still is in some character distasteful when they are being dishonest. This is the entertainment business, so it makes sense that someone like DJ who is an honest average guy would not be that entertaining. But that isnt to say he isn't true or well-spirited, something that all of us can appreciate. When was the last time DJ was pulled over because he hit someone with a car? When has DJ been stopped for banned USADA substances? When has DJ done anything to anyone with vile contempt besides doing his job? Name me a few instances please, I would like to know.

    DJ is very real. Demetrious Johnson is one of the very few fighters who boast beyond their own talents and have a displactifactual representation of respect towards his fellow fighters. Here is an excellent example. When Demetrious Johnson was put on "UFC NOW" to list what he believed were the best p4p fighter, what did he do? Ask yourself this, what do you think he did? He put himself at number 5, and put fighters like Fedor, Jones, and GSP above him. I believe this requires an amazing discipline that we have YET to see in fighters like Ronda Rousey, for example. Ronda would have put herself at the very very top of the list. So would jon jones. Unfortunately, so would Conor McGregor. But I have nothing against Conor, he is still a great fighter just lacks the variety of diciplines that other fighters like Demetrious have. I don't even consider the Nate Diaz fight to be that legitimate to be honest, but I digress. Demetrious is a very humble athlete, and his intentions are simply to provide for his family by doing what he is elite in, fighting. But before we continue on our discussion, lets break down WHY other fighters cannot possibly be the best p4p fighters on the planet. First, let's start with the obvious, the heavyweight division. Fighters, like Fabricio Werdum, are extremely talented. An elite at BJJ. But ask yourself this, how great is the HW division anyways? There are guys with null records at the TOP 10 [mark hunt] Fighters at best get 3 fight win streaks and drop. Cain was the only legit contender, next to JDS. Reem is now on an impressive feat as well. Stipe won the title, but how long can this last? Ask yourself this though, how great is Werdum's striking really? It's alright, but look at his competition, he got ko'd easily. Against competent strikers he usually loses (ignoring JDS). This is why the HW division cannot possibly contain a top contender, it is simply impossible. The closest fighter in the HW division to being considered of the variety of the elite divisions of fighter classes in terms of skills and specs would probably be Fedor. Fedor was talented in many divisions, including BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and kicks. He was talented in the clinch and faced a variety of competition. But to revert to my previous discussion, Fedor was ages ago and cannot represent the current best P4P fighter because modern fighters have incorporated far more than past fighters. Furthermore, after his controversial fight with Maldonado there are tints of doubt in his potential in the UFC. So, we eliminate the heavyweight division. We can then move on to individual contenders. Jon jones, for example, cannot possibly be the best p4p fighte ron the planet of earth. The reason for this contention that I raise against Jon Jones has to do, quite simply for the fact, of the manner of which Jones fights. Jones relies heavily on his physical capabilities and status relative to his oppponents. His style focuses on taking advantage of a ridiculously long reach (tied with an almost 7 foot tall guy) and relatievely good height. This means that MOST people cannot incorporate a similar style. Jones style works best because of his individual body type, unlike Demetrious. Now I see where you're arguing next. "How can a 5'3 manlet therefore represent me!! hur hur". Here is the thing, Demetrious is normal sized relative to his competition. So his skills and techniques are applicable for the standard in his division, not so with Jones for example. This is the crucial breaking point between DJ and JJ. If I took someone and told them to learn from JJ, and someone to learn from DJ. When I take the JJ student and DJ student, both same heights and reaches, to fight. You bet your anus that the DJ student would win! Why is this the case? Because Demetrious has displayed in a variety of fights an enormous arsenal of techniques in different diciplines including brazilian jiujutsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, both catch and greco. Jon Jones has also demeonstrated skill, but AGAIN, a large part of it has to do with his size relative to his opponents. Look at how Jones performed against OSP and Gustaffson, some of his worst performances to this current date. But even further, and most important, Jones was busted for illegal substance use. This to me ultimately refutes P4P discussions. How do we know if hes really that atlaneted if he was simply on ths juice? Fighters in the past have looked insanely skilled on juice and then the opposite while off of it. Now that we have begun our basic introducty regarding the differences between jon jones and demetrious johnson, lets continue FURTHER as to WHY the differences between these athletes warrents DJ as the best p4p fighter. Now, I hear you immediately, "but wait, Dominic Cruz beat Demetrious Johnson!". Arguably, yes, Cruz did defeat demetrious, but DJ was fighting in a division not suitable for him. Cruz had almost 6 inches of height over DJ, as he does for most his opponents. Like a great deal of "Top fighters", cruz fights in a division where he provides himself an advantage to fight his opponents. Not so with Demetrious. Demetrious is not taller, longer, or bigger than his opponents.

    He is simply better. Hold your horses, I know what you're going to say next "So basically the bigger guy is better". Arguably, I disagree with this premise, as we have seen some. But on average, it is a difficult thing to overcome. However, let us also include the fact that Cruz is an elite champion who is an expert in evasion. Demetrious certainly tried his best. Let us also include the following information in our continuing section. Demetrious Johnson of today is far different than Demetrious Johnson of years ago. The new DJ is elite of elite, crisp of crisp. He finishes subs in the last second. Dominates former Champion defeaters. He completly nuliifies his opponents in their game and demolishes them embarrasing. I say to the crowd. How many champions have reperesented DJ in the past few years? Very few. Take his opponent, Kyoji Horigochi. Kyoji was an elite division champion of Japan. A samurai of their country. Demetrious DECIMATED Kyoji in their brutal war and finished him at the end of the fight. Kyoji was embarrased by DJ, shortly after everyone caled Kyoji overhyped. So what did Horigochi do? He destroyeed his next opponent like it was a toy. What about Cejudo? The eltie grappler? Destroyed in round one. Demetrious Johnson is NOT to be toyed with. Let's finally start deriving our facts into an ultimate conclusion. The ultimate facts are the following. Demetrious Johnson is potentially the greatest fighter currently on the planet. Considering his abilities relative on a fair playing field, he is the pound for pound most skilled fighter in the entire UFC roster. There are no other fighters that can arguably even TOUCH Demetrious Johnson in terms of his marketability as a skilled fighter. To argue against this point is to immediately admit defeat, quite an embarrassing thing to do may I add. I ask the crowd. Point out exactly where in my arguments I have made significant errors. Sure, I accept, I may be a bit crude and honest in my discussion, but fault me for my honesty, not for the facts. If you are to raise an argument I simply ask you to elaborate your argument in a clean , short and precise manner as to not waste my time. Arguments that have been raised include some which I have already answered in my post. And if you cannot simply read words then, sorry, I cannot help you. additional arguments I have not touched include the "depth" of the division. Flyweight being a weak division is a false premise. Flyweight is deep. Kyoji is a former champion. Jon Dodson demolished the former bantamweight champaion. Henry Cejudo was an undefeated elite gold medalist champion of the planet before being demolished by demetrious in a mere round. Joseph Benavidez was an extremely dangerous character in both bantamweight and flyweight, and was defeated twice embarrassingly by Demetrious Johnson! GO AHEAD! Argue against that premise. Argue it as much as you want. But swallow your load to admit that Heavyweight division is a much weaker division. The Heavyweight division is no where near the quality, so would a character like Werdumimmediately fall under the Flyweights. Yes, Werdum is much less skilled than Demetrious Johnson, as is Stipe and overeem. Argue this point and you will be pronounced as an eratic individual. I will accept the following information. That welterweight and lighweight division are deeper than Flyweight, But as of yet we have yet to find a contender who is as elite as Demetirous in these divisions, ala Khabib. Khabib does have the potential but he has shown a bit of one-sidedness that Demetrious is not currently hsowing . So even Khabib fails in this document To conclude the discussion, please note the former statements. It is in the mutual interest of intellectual pursuit of mixed martial arts that I make this post. I think we can all benefit from a friendly discussion of the facts.
     
  16. NightwingBJJ

    NightwingBJJ R.I.P To The King II Long.Live.GU€RNICA

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    I still love you buddeh and that fucking ridiculous AV.
     
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  17. Luger

    Luger Rabbi of Platinum Nation Banned

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    Hahaha I'll deflower it
     
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  18. NightwingBJJ

    NightwingBJJ R.I.P To The King II Long.Live.GU€RNICA

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  19. Luger

    Luger Rabbi of Platinum Nation Banned

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  20. CereserBr

    CereserBr Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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