Is Cormier busting the myth?

[OldManGrip]

and yet the list of tall and lanky fighters dominating MMA trails far behind the list of normal sized or shorter and stalky built.


Strange that your view persists despite the fact that the proof to date shows the facts to be otherwise.

true, that guy needs to look at some stats, stocky wrestlers have always dominated mma. Just bc a few guys came along and did awesome with a long reach does not change the fact that short wrestlers have dominated especially at 170 and below. LHW and MW have the most successful fighters with long reach

 

[TheonGreyJoy**]

Nobody said it was the only advantage possible and couldn't ever be overcome. You use what you're given but I think most guys fighting would prefer to be a little taller.

Its not about being a little taller. It is asking does someone like Corey Hill have an unfair advantage in his body style over someone like Bendo?

Because that is what is being suggested. It is that Bendo, with skill has to overcome the natural, 'unfair' advantage Corey Hill has over him.

I am saying there is no such advantage and in fact history has said bet on the guy built like Bendo over the one built like Hill as he has the advantage just from a power and ability to bully POV even if both are low technical skill.

 

[campbecc]

Either type of build short and stocky or tall and lanky have both advantage and disadvantages. Success largely depends how a fighter utilizes the advantages and avoids the disadvantages of their natural abilities.

People always complain about how Jones uses his reach so effectively like it's just a coincidence, he's trained really hard to design a style of fighting that fits his natural gifts perfectly. Cormier or Cain are short and they have designed their styles based on their natural gifts.

If Jones were short he'd fight more like Cormier and if Cormier were tall he'd fight more like Jones.

 

[7437]

the fact is though 5'10 is still kind of short for ww. Condit was an interim champ thats why i stated full time champ

the lower divisions have only had 1 or 2 champs, so its not a very good point.

also, 5'10" guys cant make 125. shocking.

 

[Feynman]

I've argued this view put forth prior that reach and height are some unfair advantage in MMA requiring less skill is an unproven myth.

Umm...

...what?

Ok, so some have put forth the idea that reach and height is an unfair advantage that makes it so that less skill is unproven?

Wait.

You've argued that the idea that reach and height provides an advantage that...

Hang on, hang on, hang on...

Some think that a taller person with more reach inherently requires less skill to be successful in MMA, and you are opposed to this view? Is that it?

 

[mommas homeboy]

I've argued this view put forth prior that reach and height are some unfair advantage in MMA requiring less skill is an unproven myth.

If anything our sport has shown us that a tall lanky build is something to be overcome with greater a higher skill level then a shorter more stalky and powerful built fighter able to bully his opponents.

Few tall and lanky fighters have been able to over come the disadvantage of being less generally powerful with longer limbs more susceptible to being submitted. Time and again it seems the best fighters are the shorter and more powerfully built and I'm betting on someone with Cain's build over someone with Struve's every time.

Suddenly I see a ton of hope that DC can and will beat Jones. So my question is three-fold. Were you in the camp prior saying Jones had some unfair advantage with his build? And if so do you see DC being able to beat him? And if so, how do you reconcile your prior view?

Your comparison is ridiculous...being taller and having more reach is always an advantage. But being lanky and not very strong like Struve is obviously a disadvantage.

Jones is strong and powerful, he has huge physical avantages over DC. It's just that DC is damn good and may be able to overcome those disadvantages?


But again, comparing Cain and Struve is totally absurd....Nobody thinks Cain is at a disadvantage when he's that much thicker and stronger than a guy like Struve.

 

[K1HerosNakamura]

Let's wait and see how this fight plays out.

 

[JayElectra]

Your comparison is ridiculous...being taller and having more reach is always an advantage. But being lanky and not very strong like Struve is obviously a disadvantage.

Jones is strong and powerful, he has huge physical avantages over DC. It's just that DC is damn good and may be able to overcome those disadvantages?


But again, comparing Cain and Struve is totally absurd....Nobody thinks Cain is at a disadvantage when he's that much thicker and stronger than a guy like Struve.

No, it's not.

 

[Shaungotti]

More than anything, I think MMA has shown that there is no ideal body type. We've seen all body types do well and also do poorly.

If I had to pick a body I might go with Ben Henderson's, but a little taller. Strong legs, very balanced and well proportioned. But even with everything that Ben has going for him, he still doesn't have great offensive skills.

Guillard has good genetics but his fight IQ and ground game are below average. Arlovski is one of the most talented HWs we've seen in MMA, IMO, but has very poor defensive instincts.

Point is, body type is only one piece of the puzzle and it's not even the biggest piece, IMO.

 

[welcometohavoc]

Who exactly has he beat that has traditionally used their height/reach advantage effectively?

 

[Ryan Phillipe]

More than anything, I think MMA has shown that there is no ideal body type. We've seen all body types do well and also do poorly.

If I had to pick a body I might go with Ben Henderson's, but a little taller. Strong legs, very balanced and well proportioned. But even with everything that Ben has going for him, he still doesn't have great offensive skills.

Guillard has good genetics but his fight IQ and ground game are below average. Arlovski is one of the most talented HWs we've seen in MMA, IMO, but has very poor defensive instincts.

Point is, body type is only one piece of the puzzle and it's not even the biggest piece, IMO.

Kind've off topic but I completely agree about Arlovski. I think he would've been the dominant heavyweight of his generation and would be held in all time status if he could've developed head movement and defensive instincts. He was the most talented heavyweight of the early to mid 2000s but unfortunately has arguably the worst striking defense of any high level fighter.

 

[Kanster]

Always thought Jones had an unfair advantage because of his size and reach. The Gus fight kinda proved my point because he fought someone that's similar in size to him. That doesn't make him any less great than he is. Really good fighter, just doesn't get me excited like some others did in the past.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

any build can be an advantage in certain aspects of the fight or fighting ranges. Mike Tyson didnt have amazing reach but once he gets into his wheelhouse inside you are done. Lennox Lewis could keep you on the outside with a powerful jab using his length all night long.


that being said having the length to pop off at ppl at ranges they cant counter at is a great advantage to have and if you know how to use it well its easier to exploit because the stocky fighter has inherent risk involved to get into his wheelhouse range by having to close distance. Therefore it can be argued that length is the better advantage since you take no risks to use it if done properly at ranges/angles ppl cant counter you at.

 

[TheonGreyJoy**]

Umm...

...what?

Ok, so some have put forth the idea that reach and height is an unfair advantage that makes it so that less skill is unproven?

Wait.

You've argued that the idea that reach and height provides an advantage that...

Hang on, hang on, hang on...

Some think that a taller person with more reach inherently requires less skill to be successful in MMA, and you are opposed to this view? Is that it?

yes.

That view is completely unsupported by the facts of our sport to date.

Lanky fighters are not proven to be at any advantage that the more normal height fighters can only overcome with a higher skill level. In fact the evidence suggests the opposite.

 

[TheonGreyJoy**]

Your comparison is ridiculous...being taller and having more reach is always an advantage. But being lanky and not very strong like Struve is obviously a disadvantage.

Jones is strong and powerful, he has huge physical avantages over DC. It's just that DC is damn good and may be able to overcome those disadvantages?


But again, comparing Cain and Struve is totally absurd....Nobody thinks Cain is at a disadvantage when he's that much thicker and stronger than a guy like Struve.

lol. SO it is not that DC is strong and powerful and just able to bully and impose his game due to that. It is all skill. Whereas Jones is strong and powerful and not due to skill.

Classic.

Was Fedor overcoming the advantage Semmy had with skill and Semmy merely had his lanky frame and was not skilled?

The issue is not with body style. there are hug advantages to Fedor and Cain's prime builds as well. It is all skill on how that frame is used and that is how Jones differentiates himself from Struve. His higher skill. Not his frame.

 

[BigMuffler]

Dammit I actually agree with TheonGreyJoy for once.

If Cormier beats Jones/Gus we will see how fickle Sherdog TRULY is.

'Reach doesn't really matter/is overrated.'

 

[flanellograf]

Always thought Jones had an unfair advantage because of his size and reach. The Gus fight kinda proved my point because he fought someone that's similar in size to him. That doesn't make him any less great than he is. Really good fighter, just doesn't get me excited like some others did in the past.

Do you also think Gus has an unfair advantage?
Hating on fighters for their genes is stupid, at any rate.
The whole "unfair" argument makes no sense. Nothing in life is equal, and if it was we would be watching a coin flip. Yeah, very exciting.

 

[Lead]

Reach isn't everything. Shorter reach can work if you have the right style for it. Cormier has that style. So did Hendo.

 

[Kanster]

Do you also think Gus has an unfair advantage?
Hating on fighters for their genes is stupid, at any rate.
The whole "unfair" argument makes no sense. Nothing in life is equal, and if it was we would be watching a coin flip. Yeah, very exciting.

Hating? Never said I was hating.

 

[flanellograf]

Hating? Never said I was hating.

I wasn't being literal.