Is Cormier busting the myth?

[TheonGreyJoy**]

cormier is going to kick jone's buttocks with a 70.5 inch reach, showing the advantages of this body type.


shorter guys are stronger, hit harder, harder to submit, faster strikes in close, lower center of gravity, better at scrambling and passing guard, ect.

taller guys have more reach (negated if you have speed like cormier/fedor), are better with offensive jiu jitsu, can use knees more effectively

During Fedor's pride era if you suggested guys like Semmy Schilt were going to dominate guys like Fedor or Coleman because dat reach is such an unfair advantage you would have been laughed out of the room.

it was seen as far more advantageous to have shorter and stalky limbs that were power and tougher to submit while also allowing you to bully inside and ragdoll the lanky.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

I'd bet that Jones is a better in fighter than Cormier and Cain. He absolutely mauled a very game Glover inside.

And Cain mauled JDS on the inside. And Cormier mauled Mir, Barnett, and Bigfoot on the inside.

They are all impressive.

 

[Tntnicks]

He really should have fought Gus instead of Hendo. Then the winner fights Jones. But for Cormier to call out Jones is stupid since Jones fights Gus next.....If Jones loses there will prolly be another match between the two.....

 

[TheonGreyJoy**]

It's called reach advantage for a reason. It isn't guaranteed that the guy will use it effectively but longer limbs let you hit guys when they aren't in range to hit you, it lets you poke guys in the eye before they can reach you and if they do, a good clinch game certainly helps and if/when it does finally go to the ground, there is a ton more leverage on elbows and longer arms make it easier to sink in chokes.

Struve is an example of a guy who uses his reach about as poorly as a person can.

Do you think Struve, Roop, Grove, Diabate, etc, etc, etc, did not have guys trying to train them to use their reach? DO you think they would not if they had the skill to utilize it?

Reach advantage just means longer arms period. It does not mean 'advantage in fight' as a rule. Diabate does not go into a fight against Shogun or any other top LHW as the favorite because he has a reach advantage.

 

[FallonFoxGOAT]

This is why this fight is so fantastic. DC I believe is every bit as fantastic an athlete as Jones is. It's gonna bring the best out of both of them.

Vouch.

 

[Bilal Bones]

Not disagreeing about Jones. But DC is a sponge too. The guy has been competing in MMA a shorter time than Jones has and has showed new skills every fight as well (in different ways/ areas).

This is why this fight is so fantastic. DC I believe is every bit as fantastic an athlete as Jones is. It's gonna bring the best out of both of them.

Jones started fighting about a year before Cormier so that's not much of a difference

 

[SnapTheLankyGuy]

Do you think Struve, Roop, Grove, Diabate, etc, etc, etc, did not have guys trying to train them to use their reach? DO you think they would not if they had the skill to utilize it?

Reach advantage just means longer arms period. It does not mean 'advantage in fight' as a rule. Diabate does not go into a fight against Shogun or any other top LHW as the favorite because he has a reach advantage.

precisely, struve, dibate, ect train the hell out of their reach and still can't use it, most likely because they lack coordination/reflexes from their height, or just for the simple fact that it might not be an advantage at all in the absolute sense. It might just take a different type of striking to defeat those with long arms vs those with short arms

 

[lawrencel2]

jones' length and leverage really help him in the grappling department.
Fighters have to close this distance on him to overcome this enormous reach. when they do so they normally leave themselves open to lots of takedowns trips and throws. Not to mention its probably very hard to create distance from him when you do try and get away.
He isn't lanky

 

[ShreddinMMA]

Jones started fighting about a year before Cormier so that's not much of a difference

That wasn't supposed to be a shot at Jones. Just a comparison in how fast they both advanced.

Jones won the belt and has already become the GOAT at LHW.

DC won the Strikeforce GP and has continued to knock off big names in about as one sided a nature as possible.

They both are extremely impressive fighters who both have advanced to the top level in MMA in a short amount of time.

 

[nostradumbass]

Do you think Struve, Roop, Grove, Diabate, etc, etc, etc, did not have guys trying to train them to use their reach? DO you think they would not if they had the skill to utilize it?

Reach advantage just means longer arms period. It does not mean 'advantage in fight' as a rule. Diabate does not go into a fight against Shogun or any other top LHW as the favorite because he has a reach advantage.

Nobody said it was the only advantage possible and couldn't ever be overcome. You use what you're given but I think most guys fighting would prefer to be a little taller.

 

[H0nkey K0ng]

I got my money on DC as well.

Fasho. A more interesting question would be, "Will we ever get to see someone put Cormier on his back as a LHW lol"

 

[Islam Imamate]

I still don't believe that Cormier has the skill to beat Jones. He has impressive wrestling, but in every other facet, he hasn't shown that he has what it takes to beat Jones imo. Jones' striking is superior. Jones has better cardio. Jones has a higher fight IQ. Jones knows how to adapt and isn't reliant on a single strategy working or not working. If anything, Jones has shown the ability to fight inside, as well as outside, so the whole " If you get inside of Jones, you have a shot" myth has been busted. There is no "safe zone" with Jon Jones.

Also, Cormier will have to deal with someone who is going to fight him, not wait for him to make his move. Jones is a very offensive fighter, not a reactionary counter puncher/fighter. He's not going to simply allow Cormier to stalk him down and make the first move. Cormier has shown in the past against Mir, and Barnett that he is extremely weak to the body to the point of disengaging when hit there. If he clinches with Jones, he'll have to worry about being kneed and elbowed to the body while trying to get a take down. I'm not saying he won't get one, but he'll have to take some punishment while attempting to get it.

I still think Jones will win, and will win via TKO in the 4th round, dragging DC into deep waters where he won't be able to keep up the pace.

Its been a while since I've seen it but I remember DC looking just fine across five rounds against Barnett. Jones is a great fighter but DC is an animal and he has a decent chance.

 

[elzar]

If anything, Jones has shown the ability to fight inside, as well as outside, so the whole " If you get inside of Jones, you have a shot" myth has been busted. There is no "safe zone" with Jon Jones.

i dunno. when jones loses control of distance he sometimes panics and literally turns and runs. he's obviously capable of fighting close, but he seems uncomfortable there at times when he can't keep someone outside his reach.

 

[OldManGrip]

Nobody said it was the only advantage possible and couldn't ever be overcome. You use what you're given but I think most guys fighting would prefer to be a little taller.

not if they have a style like cain or cormier, It is how you use the body given to you. If cormier was 6'3 he would have a different strategy. All body types have positives and negatives

 

[Bilal Bones]

That wasn't supposed to be a shot at Jones. Just a comparison in how fast they both advanced.

Jones won the belt and has already become the GOAT at LHW.

DC won the Strikeforce GP and has continued to knock off big names in about as one sided a nature as possible.

They both are extremely impressive fighters who both have advanced to the top level in MMA in a short amount of time.

Oh, then I definitely agree with you.

 

[Cantorious]

DC is the only guy I see ankle picking jones when he goes for those oblique kicks and using those against jones

 

[Timmy Tucker]

I think it's unfair that Cormier is allowed to cut so much weight and be so much bigger than his opponent. I want to see a full scale revolt and him be forced to fight at HW because he shouldn't be able to use his size to win a fight.


Yeah that felt about as silly as I thought it would. How do you Jones haters do it???

 

[NikFights**]

I think it's unfair that Cormier is allowed to cut so much weight and be so much bigger than his opponent. I want to see a full scale revolt and him be forced to fight at HW because he shouldn't be able to use his size to win a fight.


Yeah that felt about as silly as I thought it would. How do you Jones haters do it???

Funny thing is, you Bones riders are already saying "Hendo was TOO SMALL FUCK CORMIER FIGHT SOMEONE YOUR OWN SIZE BEFORE GOING FOR THE TITLE"

Hilarious to hear JBJ fans get scared.

 

[dawnslayer]

Yes and yes. I'm not reconciling my view, though. Stalky guys that can wrestle, like Cormier, normally give lanky guys problems. Standing, however, that'll be DC's biggest hurdle.

Pretty much. Cormier's saving grace standing is that

1) He's used to having a big reach disadvantage. For fuck's sake he's like 5"10.

2) He's fast as hell at closing the distance. Much faster than you'd think he would be from looking at him.

He trains with the HW champ and competed in HW where he was undefeated. If he gets his camp to eyepoke him every time he closes the distance so he can get used to it, I have little doubt he'll throw Jones around like a child and gas him out from the top. Olympic wrestler and all, again, wrestling dudes much taller than him.

and with that, im mr 3000

 

[OldGoat]

I've argued this view put forth prior that reach and height are some unfair advantage in MMA requiring less skill is an unproven myth.

If anything our sport has shown us that a tall lanky build is something to be overcome with greater a higher skill level then a shorter more stalky and powerful built fighter able to bully his opponents.

Few tall and lanky fighters have been able to over come the disadvantage of being less generally powerful with longer limbs more susceptible to being submitted. Time and again it seems the best fighters are the shorter and more powerfully built and I'm betting on someone with Cain's build over someone with Struve's every time.

Suddenly I see a ton of hope that DC can and will beat Jones. So my question is three-fold. Were you in the camp prior saying Jones had some unfair advantage with his build? And if so do you see DC being able to beat him? And if so, how do you reconcile your prior view?

None of the advantages in MMA are unfair aside from roiding up.