Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by treelo, Nov 4, 2019.
Wow. POS indeed.
The Super Middle Weight win Fielding and Kovalev win doesn't jump him in my ranks any higher because Kovalev is shot with no chin and Rocky Fielding wasn't the top Champion.
But to the casual fans and kids and Mexicans it's a great achievement but to Boxing fans of the sport it's not that great.
Canelo has to pull a Manny Pac. and challenge and beat or lose win some against all of the top fighters in the top 3 or 5 and beat other champions then credit earned and due and given.
But just jumping weight classes and beating shot champions isn't getting that much credit but a good win.
Let's see what else he does and who he fights.
He barely scraped by Andy Lee and Eubank Jr.. He didn't look all that special against Monroe Jr. (a mediocrity), either.
This. He can box, but his ability to look good at elite level is far from proven.
People are always excited when Canelo fights are announced. Just go back to the early Canelo-Kovalev threads. First it was "it's all just smoke and mirrors, he'll never take that fight!" (he did), then "he'll make Kovalev fight at an insane weight!" (he didn't).
And then of course, obviously, after he wins, his opponents were never any good or just washed up to begin with. Over and over again.
I hope he destroys BJS next to shut people up again.
Hopefully we get a better opponent than that but it is funny how so many people picked Kovalev and now the narrative has changed to Canelo picked him because he's washed up
It's annoying as shit. No one's saying Kovalev is the same guy as 4 years ago, I get that. But you can beat GGG, Jacobs (they'll mostly ignore that fight btw) and Kovalev and still be a glorified can crusher in some people's eyes, apparently.
He will get less credit for BJS than any recent win. In fact, I think the same idiot critics will dog on him for it.
Oh for fucks sake this is nonsense. If Kovalev is so bad off why were so many people saying Canelo couldnt handle him? Kovalevs jab and power were more than Canelo’s defense and head movement could handle? Canelo didnt have the power to hurt a LHW? The Vegas odds were relatively close, got down to +300 for Kovalev, thats the same as Jacobs? Was Danny shot too? So on and so forth.
Ill tell you why. Because it was a very dangerous fight. One in which Canelo came through with flying colors and did literally everything that his critics said he couldnt.
that's not the case on here tbh. Most picked Canelo because kov is a shadow of his former self. check the thread out dude
Anyone thinking BJS vs Canelo is gonna happen, needs to have a serious word with themselves. Nothing to me suggests that BJS will fight anyone decent unless he has to. We can but hope though!
What are you talking about? He did just fine against Lee, and clearly out boxed and maneuvered Eubank Jr for what appeared to be a clear cut decision.
Also, Lee and Eubank are not shitty, or even mediocre, fighters. Yeah it’s not fucking Canelo Alvarez, but beating either of those guys is a genuine accomplishment.
Also, I never insinuated any of those wins meant he’s going to be beating the “elite”. I clearly stated it was indicative of a relatively high level of talent, which it clearly is.
There’s this pretentious thing I see particularly in combat sports that fans do, such as in this case, where the use the absolute cream of the crop as an absurdly rigid measuring stick for all other competitors. Like, if you’re not KOing Canelo it means your basically shit or something. Or if you don’t absolutely smash every single opponent, or maybe struggle against a lower ranked opponent, it likewise means your crap.
People will probably be like, “well that’s not really what I’m saying, blah blah blah,” but that’s essentially the tenor, because it’s always framed in the context of, “how would they do against the ‘elite.’”
About 40% of the forum picked Canelo. Ill start locking polls when the fights start so they dont get skewed to bs like always once the fight is over.
Now all of a sudden Kovalev was a bad opponent.
I only tend to read the posts of the regulars in here. In all fairness there is a lot of clued up posters, and I don’t get to watch nearly as much boxing as I’d like. Most seemed to favour canelo on here, but tbf that’s as much about canelos skills, than kova being in the slide
I’d like him to move up to SMW proper and take on the champions. I think Callum Smith and benevidez could be harder fights than kova, and with the money he brings we will get these guys fighting. Theres no excuses with these guys either; both young, in or around their prime, and fckin big fellas. I’d be very impressed if he unifies smw
I am just saying Canelo has to cement his legacy by completing his goal because now it's calling out other Champions by his trainer, so things wasn't just a one time weight jump, because team Canelo is already barking.
If Manny just moved to 147 and beat a shot old champion and hadn't faced everyone else nobodies giving him this much credit he's now being given why because it wouldn't be finished and not complete.
Do other fighters get extreme credit for beating past prime Champions like Mike Tyson and the unknown fighters who beat him, absolutely not.
Even Lennox Lewis isn't getting the full credit because Mike was past prime, but it's a win.
Did Oscar get absolutely full credit for beating an old Chavez, nope because Chavez was past prime and done.
Canelo didn't even get credit for beating past prime Mosley and Cotto didn't get full credit for beating Sergio.
Let's wait and see what happens first because team Canelo is calling everyone out now.
And Im saying anyone trying to discredit Canelo’s resume and/or legacy as it stands is a total clown.
Every Boxing expert has said Kovalev was done and not the same and his power was fading and said that this is a good win but not a legitimate game changing win and that's their words and not mine, now everyone is wrong ? or just stating facts and will wait until Canelo fights the other top prime champions at 168 and 175 if he's staying.
He's only the second guy in boxing history to hold belts in 3 weight classes at once, I believe. It was a pretty significant win for his legacy, its ridiculous to argue otherwise.
I am not arguing his legacy of being a great fighter because I am a fan of his and know he is legitimate because he stoop their with GGG and backed him up and beat him at his own game.
It's the moving up and the wins against a lesser champion at 168 and a past prime almost done Kovalev and now everyone is jumping around acting like Canelo is better then everyone at 175 and can beat them and that's not true until he faces them, then credit will be given.
That's all, if Kovalev was prime then it's a legitimate incredible win, but he wasn't and all the experts said this, and that's why Kovalev wouldn't open up because he wasn't the same fighter and was scared and gun shy.
Let's see what he does against the two other beast prime Champions at 175, then we can talk is he the best Mexican fighter ever, for now it's Chavez or Marquez or Sanchez depending on your rating system and the type of boxing style you like.
By the way I am not pulling a Teddy Atlas that for some reason just rips Canelo apart and doesn't give him credit and that's crazy, but I am just saying he's got more to do and Kovakev was shot but good enough to hold onto his belt twice but almost knocked out and knocked out before that and hurt badly and stopped and everyone said he's done look at his age and his chin os fading fast and his weak body and his legs.
He didn't completely handle Lee, Eubank Jr., or even Monroe, really. A win over Andy Lee is meaningful and I'm not saying otherwise. What I am saying is that it was a very close fight that he only won based off of his knockdowns. He edged by these guys. I also only called Monroe a mediocrity. I rate Lee higher than a mediocrity and Eubank Jr., despite clearly being below the elite level, isn't an easy fight for most top fighters (he'd be a very easy fight for a guy like Canelo, though).
I'd also agree that Saunders has a fair bit of talent. His issues are the fact that he rarely shows up in shape and that he hasn't made it a priority to fight top level talent. Even factoring in that talent, though, I don't see how he poses a ton of issues to Canelo based on Canelo's recent form. A guy like Jacobs was a fair bit more problematic and Canelo showed well aganist him.
Separate names with a comma.