Is American/Full Contact Kickboxing dead in the United States?

[Guestx]

It certainly seems to be.

I enjoy going back and watching the old shiny pants kickboxing of the 70s, 80s and 90s, mostly because a lot of those guys came from karate and TKD backgrounds and you can see a lot of kicks that you just don't usually see in kickboxing today.

I get that a lot of people don't really like it because its rules are more restrictive than MT but I think those rules just allow for a different kind of fight, one that's entertaining to watch and looks like a lot of fun to do.

From what I understand there are still organizations that fight under this ruleset on Europe but American Kickboxing seems to have all but evaporated in, well, America!

I've even looked for FC Kickboxing schools and have found pretty much nothing at all. At least in my city and some other cities I've looked at it's all MT.

Is there anywhere to still train in FC Kickboxing in the US? Anywhere to compete under that ruleset?

 

[Yodsanan]

Plenty of competition in the US, I'd imagine. Maybe have to look under the terms Sports Karate or American Kickboxing/Karate.


Raymond Daniels and Wonderboy competed almost entirely in the US under that ruleset. Look for W.A.K.O schools. That's the majoring governing body that does Kickboxing under that ruleset. Could also contact them, and ask for schools in your area.


K-1 ruleset is more prevalent in this time and age, though.

 

[Tunney]

Funny, I came here to post about American Kickboxing. I miss it as well.

It's an extremely effective style that unfortunately lost out to Muay Thai, which in my opinion is a vastly inferior style in most ways. AK had a couple glaring weaknesses that they myopically refused to fix, lack of leg kicks most famously.

I'd absolutely love to see a resurgence of this underappreciated style.

I have also tried and failed to find local schools.

 

[Yodsanan]

It's an extremely effective style that unfortunately lost out to Muay Thai, which in my opinion is a vastly inferior style in most ways.

explain.

 

[Tunney]

explain.

It lost out to Muay Thai essentially because of leg kicks. The famous Rick Roufus fight against the MT fighter.

As far as AK being better, I guess it's somewhat subjective, but it combined Western boxing with karate in a great way. It had a very wide array of kicks, nice foot work. Much more fluid and versatile than Muay Thai.

 

[Yodsanan]

It lost out to Muay Thai essentially because of leg kicks. The famous Rick Roufus fight against the MT fighter.

As far as AK being better, I guess it's somewhat subjective, but it combined Western boxing with karate in a great way. It had a very wide array of kicks, nice foot work. Much more fluid and versatile than Muay Thai.

I thought you are talking about popularity.


If it would be better in a non-AK ruleset, we would see it more.

 

[Tunney]

I thought you are talking about popularity.


If it would be better in a non-AK ruleset, we would see it more.

It would be (and was) better in a non-AK ruleset with the exception of leg kicks (primarily). If AK had adapted to the use of leg kicks (as well as knees and elbows) it would have been a better style. It didn't, so now it's practically extinct. The footwork, boxing, and kicking versatility were all superior to the Muay Thai based kickboxing prevalent these days.

 

[Yodsanan]

It would be (and was) better in a non-AK ruleset with the exception of leg kicks (primarily). If AK had adapted to the use of leg kicks (as well as knees and elbows) it would have been a better style. It didn't, so now it's practically extinct. The footwork, boxing, and kicking versatility were all superior to the Muay Thai based kickboxing prevalent these days.

well, footwork doesn't translate over when low kicks are involved, and if you make for an efficient style then kicking versatility is cut down as well. it's not like thais can't kick like that, it just doesn't work.

If they had adapted to all those things it wouldn't look like AK anymore.

 

[Yodsanan]

It didn't, so now it's practically extinct.

the WAKO has competing atheltes from over 120 different countries. it's not extinct, they just don't have major broadcast deals.

 

[Tunney]

well, footwork doesn't translate over when low kicks are involved

Except that footwork can be used to avoid leg kicks? There are karate styles that utilize leg kicks and still look like karate. So your statement is objectively false.

and if you make for an efficient style then kicking versatility is cut down as well.

There's nothing inefficient about having a larger arsenal of weapons. That doesn't make sense.

it's not like thais can't kick like that, it just doesn't work.

Except that they do work? There are tons of kicks that are infrequent in Muay Thai (like spinning kicks and hook kicks) that certainly work.

 

[Yodsanan]

There are karate styles that utilize leg kicks and still look like karate. So your statement is objectively false.



There's nothing inefficient about having a larger arsenal of weapons. That doesn't make sense.



Except that they do work? There are tons of kicks that are infrequent in Muay Thai (like spinning kicks and hook kicks) that certainly work.

there are tons of Karate Stylist in K1 Japan. In fact most of the Champs right now have a Karate base. Noiri, Koya, Takeru and all of them fight like Kickboxers. because guess what, that's in most cases the most effective way to fight under that ruleset.

Except that footwork can be used to avoid leg kicks?

worked great for raymond daniels.

Except that they do work? There are tons of kicks that are infrequent in Muay Thai (like spinning kicks and hook kicks) that certainly work.

somebody should show those poor thais how to hook kick, so they can be more effective.

 

[Snubnoze707]

It lost out to Muay Thai essentially because of leg kicks. The famous Rick Roufus fight against the MT fighter.

As far as AK being better, I guess it's somewhat subjective, but it combined Western boxing with karate in a great way. It had a very wide array of kicks, nice foot work. Much more fluid and versatile than Muay Thai.

The Dutch combined Boxing and Karate in a much better manner. American Kickboxing is garbage, that's why it died out.

 

[Yodsanan]

Tunney sounding like Duke Roufus after Changpuek smashed his brother.

 

[Tunney]

there are tons of Karate Stylist in K1 Japan. In fact most of the Champs right now have a Karate base. Noiri, Koya, Takeru and all of them fight like Kickboxers. because guess what, that's in most cases the most effective way to fight under that ruleset.

But it's not the most effective way. The Muay Thai base is plodding and brawling by nature, it could be easily exploited by someone with better footwork and a larger arsenal of kicks.

worked great for raymond daniels.

Wow one guy who's been pretty successful in kickboxing. Nice.

 

[Tunney]

Tunney sounding like Duke Roufus after Changpuek smashed his brother.

You mean the fight where Rick beat the everliving shit out of him until Changpuek realized Rick couldn't handle leg kicks? Proves my point.

 

[Yodsanan]

But it's not the most effective way. The Muay Thai base is plodding and brawling by nature, it could be easily exploited by someone with better footwork and a larger arsenal of kicks.

That's why they produce world champions in muay thai, kickboxing and boxing and are known by everyone in the full contact world as the best strikers.

Wow one guy who's been pretty successful in kickboxing. Nice.

He was touted as the Bill Wallace of this generation and achieved nothing in kickboxing when he stepped up in competition. All it needed to stop him was basic stuff.

 

[Tunney]

That's why they produce world champions in muay thai, kickboxing and boxing and are known by everyone in the full contact world as the best strikers.

Like I said, Muay Thai took over (in part) because AK failed to adapt to low kicks. That does not prove that Muay Thai is the superior style. The Rick Roufus fight you posted demonstrates the exact opposite: that AK is vastly superior except for its achilles heel of low kicks.

He was touted as the Bill Wallace of this generation and achieved nothing in kickboxing when he stepped up in competition. All it needed to stop him was basic stuff.

Rick Roufus was AK based and is one of the greats, so.... Pointing to one guy is not really an argument.

 

[Yodsanan]

You mean the fight where Rick beat the everliving shit out of him until Changpuek realized Rick couldn't handle leg kicks? Proves my point.

He lost the fight and was nearly crippled in the process. "If" is a wrong attitude to have in fighting. If Changpuek didn't have bad hands he would have beaten him up even more, but that wasn't the case. Same for Ricks lowkick defence and footowork.

 

[Yodsanan]

Like
I said, Muay Thai took over (in part) because AK failed to adapt to low kicks. That does not prove that Muay Thai is the superior style. The Rick Roufus fight you posted demonstrates the exact opposite: that AK is vastly superior except for its achilles heel of low kicks.

???

Rick got crippled in that fight. and no style is surperior to another. AK probably works best in the mess that is the AK ruleset, but saying AK would rule the kickboxing and muay thai world is just untrue and there is no AK stylist that proves otherwise.

Rick Roufus was AK based and is one of the greats, so.... Pointing to one guy is not really an argument.

that's liteally all you do. there are 100.000 AK stylist out there. Where are they in top K1 competition?

 

[Tunney]

He lost the fight and was nearly crippled in the process. "If" is a wrong attitude to have in fighting. If Changpuek didn't have bad hands he would have beaten him up even more, but that wasn't the case. Same for Ricks lowkick defence and footowork.

He clearly lost the fight for no reason other than lack of lowkick defense.

Of course, these are just isolated examples which you can't really use to prove a point. The bottom line is that AK is a much more dynamic and well rounded style. If they had adapted to low kicks (which they stupidly didn't), Muay Thai would almost certainly not have ascended the way it did.