Is a Law degree worthless these days?

Tomax said:
These threads are useless. ANY degree is useless if you're a can. If you're a stellar fucking star, you can turn any degree into a world of opportunity. The fact that you have to ask, well, ......
Click to expand...

False. You can be a complete can with an engineering degree and still get a great job and thrive at it. It's true. I've done it. :cool:
 
You need to specialize and do well to be as marketable as possible. You still always have a chance, though. It's far from worthless obviously.

The law degree has lost much of its luster in recent times, though. I'd recommend tax law for an inside track. I considered it myself before staying with biology.
 
I posted about this in a previous, similar thread. I'm lazy, so I'll just copy-paste my thoughts:

Dies Irae said:
Actual lawyer here.

Thus far, the only correct posts have been those that mentioned (a) notable over-saturation of the legal pool and (b) lack of worth of "lower-tier" legal degrees. Posts referencing "relocation" and internal corporate compliance, though likely well-intentioned, were unfortunately incorrect.

As it currently stands, the post-2008 legal market has been more-or-less shrinking (there have been some ups, but very major downs). Corporate work (i.e. M&A, Sec Reg, etc.) is fairly stable, though lacking much of the same boom in development that came prior to the economic recession. Litigation work (i.e. complex commercial, products liability, etc.) is relatively slower compared to pre-recession times due to industries wishing to avoid costly court battles. Moreover, a large proportion of corporations are seeking to redefine (and restrict) billing practices of most firms.

However, law school enrollment has consistently grown in previous years, while the ABA has proven itself to be an almost entirely incompetent review/accreditation board (i.e. permitting any school to become accredited, not penalizing schools for blatantly deceiving their students as to graduation statistics, etc.).

From all of this, you have a market that simply doesn't require a vast proportion of the attorneys that are admitted each year. Moreover, the overwhelming majority of "BigLaw" jobs (i.e. Vault 100 firms that tend to pay 145-160+ at first year compensation) look for T14 law school graduates. Hell, most of them look solely for T6 law graduates (i.e. Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU), and will randomly choose to intermingle only the top students (i.e. top 10%, Law Review, etc.) from the other schools.

Considering the sheer costs of law schools, coupled with almost obscene loan interest rates, students who fail to either (a) land BigLaw jobs with large starting salaries or (b) land gov. jobs that permit loan forgiveness after 10 years, are essentially looking at living in "poverty" for the remainder of their lives.

In terms of posts mentioning "corporate compliance" or in-house work, most of those positions tend to be reserved for mid-level/senior associates from large firms who are seeking to leave their firm (or who have been asked to leave their firm). Very rarely would you ever see a law school graduate go in-house straight from school: a larger degree of experience tends to be sought.

In terms of posts mentioning "relocation" to various other markets; unfortunately, that is generally not how the legal world works. Rather, it is almost intensely cloistered, with firms being very suspicious of applicants who have a history in another state or city. Even for law school graduates, firms tend to be wary of a student who, say, went to Tulane but is looking for a job in St. Louis (without having even family ties to the area). Firms, even mid-law to "shit-law" firms, tend to be very suspicious that this new hire is merely transitory, and will lateral out within a year.

Overall, tl:dr advice - IF YOU DID NOT GET INTO A T14 LAW SCHOOL, OR IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO A T14+ BUT WITHOUT LOANS, DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

That is my consistent advice to the kids who regularly ask me if they should take the LSAT. Inwardly I have an urge to tell them T6, and not t14, but I don't have the heart.
Click to expand...
 
I don`t know about you, but I find toilet paper friggin useful. It actually may be more useful than a law degree too.
 
top Law students generally don't have a problem regardless of the economy or market saturation.

There are lots of great jobs for people with Law degrees besides practicing too.
 
Casa Magna said:
LOL NOOOO its not. Even if you cant get a job in that field it still opens plenty of doors.
Click to expand...

LOL NOOOOO it doesn't.

It doesn't open any doors that would not likely have been open without it, unless it is a door to practice law.

This is one of the great myths surrounding a law degree.
 
paratiddies said:
A good friend who's 31 and making almost 250k a year says no, he is one of the smartest people I know however. I've got a feeling the people who graduate from law school and end up working for 40 grand a year aren't the brightest - just because someone's capable of busting their ass for 3 years and getting thru law school doesn't necessarily mean that they should ya know?
Click to expand...

Where did he go to school and when did he graduate?

If he's 31 and graduated 2005-2008 then yeah; it was a lot easier back then.

If he went to a T14 school and did well, then yeah; I can see that.

For the majority (95%) of people graduating from law schools today they will struggle to find quality employment. Moreover, most of them will hate what they do.
 
Dies Irae said:
I posted about this in a previous, similar thread. I'm lazy, so I'll just copy-paste my thoughts:
Click to expand...

Yes. Quoted text x 1000000 (actual lawyer here too).
 
anaconda said:
LOL NOOOOO it doesn't.

It doesn't open any doors that would not likely have been open without it, unless it is a door to practice law.

This is one of the great myths surrounding a law degree.
Click to expand...

To be fair -you live in one of the most lawyered up areas of the world.

My uncle has hired 3 law grads this year, and I have one doing research and contract stuff at my company.

Things are slower but their is still movement and needs.

Stay positive anaconda -you'll land something soon (if you were the guy on here frustrated looking for work -I can't remember)

Maybe you were the one giving the advice. not sure
 
anaconda said:
Yes. Quoted text x 1000000 (actual lawyer here too).
Click to expand...

How much does undergrad play in?

Or work experience in a prior field?

Lets say I was working as an accountant or engineer for 2-4 years snd wanted to get into law in that field.

How would that past experience and degree factor in?
 
Tomax said:
These threads are useless. ANY degree is useless if you're a can. If you're a stellar fucking star, you can turn any degree into a world of opportunity. The fact that you have to ask, well, ......
Click to expand...

i agree with this comment.
 
anaconda said:
LOL NOOOOO it doesn't.

It doesn't open any doors that would not likely have been open without it, unless it is a door to practice law.

This is one of the great myths surrounding a law degree.
Click to expand...

Disagree with you completely. I know a lot of lawyers who look to hire people with law degrees for various tasks which you don't actually need a law degree for, simply because they can. It really depends what you are willing to do in life. To act like a law degree has no value beyond practicing law, is ridiculous.

That is up to the individual person, and how they use the knowledge they have gained, and how they can sell the degree. Hell, I know places that love people with professional degrees applying for lower level jobs, because they know those people have a mountain of debt to pay off and will not usually risk being unemployed. They are better workers, if you treat them fairly.
 
Tomax said:
These threads are useless. ANY degree is useless if you're a can. If you're a stellar fucking star, you can turn any degree into a world of opportunity. The fact that you have to ask, well, ......
Click to expand...

Disagree with the bolded, but agree with the rest.

All degrees that will get you a "job" do is hide the reality of the situation from you. If you're going to do something awesome, it's because of you, not your degree. As a graduating engineer, it's true you do have a path in front of you: but if all you want to do is punch the clock, you'll be a secure, well paid, mouse-clicker for the rest of your life.

A basic rule I've come up with is that if your responsibility, and role within a group is not increasing, you've fucked up somewhere.
 
Jmarc said:
Disagree with you completely. I know a lot of lawyers who look to hire people with law degrees for various tasks which you don't actually need a law degree for, simply because they can. It really depends what you are willing to do in life. To act like a law degree has no value beyond practicing law, is ridiculous.

That is up to the individual person, and how they use the knowledge they have gained, and how they can sell the degree. Hell, I know places that love people with professional degrees applying for lower level jobs, because they know those people have a mountain of debt to pay off and will not usually risk being unemployed. They are better workers, if you treat them fairly.
Click to expand...

Awesome, so you can spend years at law school, run up hundreds of thousands in debt, just to apply for lower-level jobs which don't even require a law degree. What a deal!
 
You don't even need a law degree to practice law. That lawyer kid in Suits is killing it and he never even finished college.
 
A JD certainly is not worthles. But the market is very tricky right now. However, good people get good work in the field. I would echo the notion that unless your credentials are very, very good, or you are not taking on large debt, law school is a big gamble, which most people will lose.
 
SevenSamurai said:
To be fair -you live in one of the most lawyered up areas of the world.

My uncle has hired 3 law grads this year, and I have one doing research and contract stuff at my company.

Things are slower but their is still movement and needs.

Stay positive anaconda -you'll land something soon (if you were the guy on here frustrated looking for work -I can't remember)

Maybe you were the one giving the advice. not sure
Click to expand...

Actually I've got a great, non law-related job. But it was a pain in the ass getting here. I had to go through some really crappy jobs and even run my own firm for a bit until I found something I enjoyed.

I looked for a long time for any decent legal employment. Granted, I graduated at the worst possible time (2009) and I did have a job which I left after a year because my employer was shady. But I was looking for non-law focused jobs since graduating (alongside law jobs) and couldn't find any.

And I live in one of the healthiest economies in the country.
 
Jmarc said:
Disagree with you completely. I know a lot of lawyers who look to hire people with law degrees for various tasks which you don't actually need a law degree for, simply because they can. It really depends what you are willing to do in life. To act like a law degree has no value beyond practicing law, is ridiculous.

That is up to the individual person, and how they use the knowledge they have gained, and how they can sell the degree. Hell, I know places that love people with professional degrees applying for lower level jobs, because they know those people have a mountain of debt to pay off and will not usually risk being unemployed. They are better workers, if you treat them fairly.
Click to expand...

Well I've lived it and have spoken to plenty of employers that disagree with you completely.

A law degree has plenty of value beyond practicing law. But its not something that employers will actively look for or will pay extra for, beyond some limited cases.

The reality is that for those types of jobs where a law degree is useful but not required (e.g. a contracts position) an employer would way rather have someone with 3 years experience, whom they can pay less, than a lawyer that might jump ship at the first law opportunity that comes up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,929
Messages
55,455,731
Members
174,786
Latest member
Gladiator47

Share this page

Back
Top