Interesting exchange on Judo, Karo vs Sokoudjou

bnosam said:
As far as I know, now that would be an illegal takedown
Click to expand...

It would be an illegal throw unless you throw a feint by attempting a non-leg grabbing throw first, and then transitioning to a leg attack. Of course feints are illegal in Judo, so you either have to make a legit attack of another throw, or make it appear convincing enough the the ref that he buys your initial throw attempt. For this Kuchiki Taoshi, you could attempt an Ippon Seoinage for example, and then turn into them, lift the leg, and drive or sweep the planted foot with Ouchgari, etc.
 
Drew Foster said:
It would be an illegal throw unless you throw a feint by attempting a non-leg grabbing throw first, and then transitioning to a leg attack. Of course feints are illegal in Judo, so you either have to make a legit attack of another throw, or make it appear convincing enough the the ref that he buys your initial throw attempt. For this Kuchiki Taoshi, you could attempt an Ippon Seoinage for example, and then turn into them, lift the leg, and drive or sweep the planted foot with Ouchgari, etc.
Click to expand...

Kind of ruins judo to make those illegal
 
bnosam said:
Kind of ruins judo to make those illegal
Click to expand...

Absolutely! In my opinion the IJF made the decision to further differentiate Judo from wrestling, which is silly on a lot of levels that I don't even feel like going into.

One thing I will say is that competitive Judo is NOT the true Judo. I used to hate when people said that, but when Kataguruma (Fireman's carry) was one of Kano's favorite techniques, how can you remove that, along with Sukuinage (Teguruma), Morotegari (double leg), etc, and still be keeping true to the martial art? It's crazy.

Over regulation is a surefire way to de-evolve any sport. What does the IBJJF do when the 50/50 was introduced? They keep it in, and force people to deal with the guard by figuring out how to solve the problem of being stuck in it.

The way to get rid of leg attacks in Judo is to let the competitors deal with ways to counter the attacks. The en vogue throws of Judo have changed during history very often, except for a few mainstays. If you want every throw to be a beautiful Uchimata, Haraigoshi, Seoinage, Osotogari, or Tomoenage, there are ways to do it besides making good alternative techniques illegal.
 
Drew Foster said:
Absolutely! In my opinion the IJF made the decision to further differentiate Judo from wrestling, which is silly on a lot of levels that I don't even feel like going into.

One thing I will say is that competitive Judo is NOT the true Judo. I used to hate when people said that, but when Kataguruma (Fireman's carry) was one of Kano's favorite techniques, how can you remove that, along with Sukuinage (Teguruma), Morotegari (double leg), etc, and still be keeping true to the martial art? It's crazy.

Over regulation is a surefire way to de-evolve any sport. What does the IBJJF do when the 50/50 was introduced? They keep it in, and force people to deal with the guard by figuring out how to solve the problem of being stuck in it.

The way to get rid of leg attacks in Judo is to let the competitors deal with ways to counter the attacks. The en vogue throws of Judo have changed during history very often, except for a few mainstays. If you want every throw to be a beautiful Uchimata, Haraigoshi, Seoinage, Osotogari, or Tomoenage, there are ways to do it besides making good alternative techniques illegal.
Click to expand...

Kata Guruma was one of my favourite techniques to use when I did judo. It's a shame they basically made it illegal.
 
Drew Foster said:
Absolutely! In my opinion the IJF made the decision to further differentiate Judo from wrestling, which is silly on a lot of levels that I don't even feel like going into.

Over regulation is a surefire way to de-evolve any sport. What does the IBJJF do when the 50/50 was introduced? They keep it in, and force people to deal with the guard by figuring out how to solve the problem of being stuck in it.
Click to expand...

IMHO they just made Judo more like Greco-Roman wrestling by eliminating the leg grabs. I agree with your point on 50/50 and the IBJJF, leave moves legal that aren't dangerous.
 
Karo's Judo and Soku's Judo are different. Thats all it really comes down to (Karos is also better).
 
Normot said:
Karo's Judo and Soku's Judo are different. Thats all it really comes down to (Karos is also better).
Click to expand...

They are different, but for Soku to say Judo is just throws is ridiculous. Of course BJJ guys are better on the ground, but there are kickass Judo newaza ground fighters all over the world. Soku should know better than to say it's all throws.

Also, Karo has the best Judo in MMA history, and I don't think anyone will ever surpass him. He has the most takedowns in UFC history (GSP will probably surpass him within a year, if he didn't in his fight with Dan Hardy) and the second most in MMA history behind Fedor. He has like 58 takedowns in 12 fights. If you count his WEC fight with Shonie he has 67 I think... No one will be able to adapt their Judo to no-gi in a fight like he can.

Actually GSP pretty much has to surpass him, as karo is not in the UFC right now, and GSP will probably fight at least a few more times before/if Karo is able to return. Does anyone know how many GSP is averaging a fight now? Has to be 6 or 7 at least.
 
Last edited:
Alaskantkdkid said:
IMHO they just made Judo more like Greco-Roman wrestling by eliminating the leg grabs. I agree with your point on 50/50 and the IBJJF, leave moves legal that aren't dangerous.
Click to expand...

When I say differentiate from wrestling, I meant that there was talk of dropping Judo from the Olympics and some say the IJF thought by eliminating leg attacks, tackles, firemans, etc, that they could further distinguish themselves from freestyle wrestling. Rhadi Ferguson has a lot of great opinions on the issue over at Judoforum.

I don't neccesarily think they wanted to emulate Greco. I think they want the upright posture, classical Japanese Judo back, and they thought the best way to get that was by eliminating "Russian/European style" techniques, even though everyone in every country uses leg attacks, which makes their decision all the more stupid.

On a side note, they need to get IJF refs that agree on what an Ippon throw is. Most of the Ippon throws nowadays would be half-point throws 20-30 years ago instead of full-point throws. You can get 7 refs in a room and they all have a different definition of what "considerable speed and force, with the opponent landing on their back" means. Many of the main throws land you on your between your side and back, and are strong as hell, but aren't given ippon because both shoulders aren't down. That's why so many guys somersault with the throw and let their back get taken on landing, only to win by ippon because they got both the shoulders to land flat, even though they may have had little control or force.

Rant over lol... The IJF drives me crazy, and I'm just a spectator of elite Judo comps. :icon_chee I don't even plan on doing Judo tourneys in 2010.
 
saying Judo is all about throw is stupid
Yoshida submission game is pretty good!his ankle lock and armbar on Ogawa was awesome
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,980
Messages
55,458,949
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top