Interesting American style kickboxing vs muay thai fight from 1988

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Lol @ this thread.
On this topic though I read recently that some notorious Thai mobster was present at the fight and that this could be the reason why Changpuek fought through that broken jaw but not sure if this is true though.

Saving the thread: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/the-rise-and-fall-of-klaew-thanikul-the-mafia-godfather-of-muay-thai

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

If you set up a fight with someone from another discipline to prove whose style is the best, and the first thing you do is tell them they can't use a bunch of the techniques their style is known for, then you've already admitted whose style is best.

mma > muay thai then?

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Why the kick boxer was wearing footpads (or w.e. they're called)?

It was the style at the time. I think it still might be for american kickboxing

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

It was the style at the time. I think it still might be for american kickboxing

I believe that thing has fortunately died

 

[SandisLL]

Well, I think this was cos advantages for TV in these years: dressing with different colours and abowe the waist only: easier to see for clients……….
-
Now with One and Glory, and after K-1 era….
Basically for plenty of places in eastern euro KB was just some opportunity to compete under common simple rules, regardless are these guys from KK, other styles or Shotokan, h2h or kung fu ( btw in eastern euro these too not rarerly loved to bang for real ). Find out boxing coach to add skills and bang.
Later more tailored training for sport KB appeared, more after 1995 th and a bit later.
So yeah, belts too weren't a problem. Gyms with 0 belts mandatory etc.
--
I cos low kicks and even blocks with leg, plenty of karate styles does have in classic syllabus also blocks with leg too.
Yup, in boxing they usually paid to boxing coaches, plenty of TMAs doesn't have common casuality for hooks, half hooks etc like stuff.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I believe that thing has fortunately died

I breathe a sigh of relief

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I believe that thing has fortunately died

I think you are being a bit unfair. Shiny pants kickboxing may not be as complete as MT or Dutch style but you need to put it back into context. In the 80's kicks below the waist were frown upon in much of the Western world and shiny pants was a pretty legit adaptation of boxing + kicks above the waste. Still much more complete than most bullshit styles of karate or TKD.

 

[SandisLL]

shiny pants was a pretty legit adaptation of boxing

Easier to observe in TV, especially if bearing in mind CTR type TVs in 80 ies and lower " pixels " ratio for cameras that were used in 1980-1995 for TV translations.

below the waist were

Lesser easy to observe for TV spectactors for example.
--
Something common is with some TMA stylish rules for some karate, TKD tournaments: there scoring for high kicks is higher, jumping high kicks : the best stuff etc.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

I think you are being a bit unfair. Shiny pants kickboxing may not be as complete as MT or Dutch style but you need to put it back into context. In the 80's kicks below the waist were frown upon in much of the Western world and shiny pants was a pretty legit adaptation of boxing + kicks above the waste. Still much more complete than most bullshit styles of karate or TKD.

I was being facetious but you are agreeing with the point that American kickboxing is ineffective - you’re just elaborating on the why.

it shouldn’t need to be said that these “effective/non effective” bold generalizations only apply to elite levels. I am a huge Muay Thai enthusiast and I love to train little variations of the mt clinch and perfect my shin blocks and my balance and all that stuff but still any legit shiny pants amateur fighter with a couple fights experience would whoop me with little effort.

 

[SandisLL]

Before some time after 2005 th and later it not rarerly was assumed that to watch long clinches is boring. Then with popularity of MMA rising in europe approach changed.
Still there for example Glory does have rules, more lucrative for Benilux promotions I think, to sell tickets for VIP tables etc. Location populated with high density, Belgium + Netherlands etc.
In Bangkok most likely better sales are for fights under full MT rules and they will prefer these rules, not K-1 & Glory like rules.
Customers preferences changes offers.

 

[Vaio]

I think you are being a bit unfair. Shiny pants kickboxing may not be as complete as MT or Dutch style but you need to put it back into context. In the 80's kicks below the waist were frown upon in much of the Western world and shiny pants was a pretty legit adaptation of boxing + kicks above the waste. Still much more complete than most bullshit styles of karate or TKD.

Reminds me of a WKA event I went to back in the early 1980's. Even though low kicks were allowed hardly any of the American fighters were using them. There were some fighters from Japan on the card and they were all using low kicks. Not only were they getting booed heavily for the leg kicks, the dumbass fans were yelling all kinds of racist crap at them.

 

[Kanka]

How long did the shining pants era last?

 

[Memeojima]

Thais always start slow and Roufus was way bigger. Roufus always started out good with some flashy move and then faded. Duke from this point recognized the importance of low kicks.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I think you are being a bit unfair. Shiny pants kickboxing may not be as complete as MT or Dutch style but you need to put it back into context. In the 80's kicks below the waist were frown upon in much of the Western world and shiny pants was a pretty legit adaptation of boxing + kicks above the waste. Still much more complete than most bullshit styles of karate or TKD.

We weren't talking about the style of martial art, we were talking about the foot gloves

 

[Vaio]

It was the style at the time. I think it still might be for american kickboxing

In the state of California footpads were actually optional, even though they were almost always worn.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

In the state of California footpads were actually optional, even though they were almost always worn.

I make fun of them, but if I had never trained muay thai - I could see myself opting to use them

 

[Snubnoze707]

How long did the shining pants era last?

It started in the 70's and lasted until the 90's. Chuck Norris tried to make it come back with CFL in 2005 but that didn't last long.

 

[Deleted member 576123]

Should've paid your taxes Eric.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I was being facetious but you are agreeing with the point that American kickboxing is ineffective - you’re just elaborating on the why.

it shouldn’t need to be said that these “effective/non effective” bold generalizations only apply to elite levels. I am a huge Muay Thai enthusiast and I love to train little variations of the mt clinch and perfect my shin blocks and my balance and all that stuff but still any legit shiny pants amateur fighter with a couple fights experience would whoop me with little effort.

Honestly I don't want to get into that but I would not say that shiny pants is ineffective. It has boxing in it and all sorts of kicks, all of which is full contact. I mean if shiny pants is ineffective, then so is boxing. I think it's all relative to the ruleset. From my perspective, any combat sport which incorporates no restriction on boxing has its place. Likewise, kyokushin as an example also has its place since it is a very good full-contact kicking art, but the restriction on punches make it incomplete. I would not say that kyokushin is ineffective, even if it is not complete. Some arts need adaptations, just as long as they are legit in their area of specialty, and both shiny pants and kyokushin, which I bring up, fit the bill.

Some martial arts like animal kung-fu, shotokan and all the ryu karates out there are largely useless, though, IMO.

If you remember Dennis Alexio for example, that guy was an absolute killer with pretty good boxing, but is a shiny pants fighter.

Lastly, and I know that this comment will not be appreciated by many posters here, but I think that a current form of MT, which is currently prevalent in the stadiums at the highest level, is drifting away from what MT used to be and is starting to look like TKD a bit, with all the arm kicks spamming with the purpose of winning on points. But I digress.

 

[Kanka]

Well effectiveness depends on the context. I'm sure their style is effective for that particular sport. Now if a boxer, Nak Muay or fighter from another sport beats them in their own ruleset, it's probably fair to question the effectiveness.

In kickboxing for example, the effectiveness of the dutch style has been questioned when they were unable to deal with kicks against some thais (Holzken, Grigorian, Roosmalen etc).

Did any thais compete full above waist rules?