Integrity of the sport ... Does it matter to you?

[Smigg]

List which fights you believe were fixed.

It's not about which fights I "believe" to be fixed, I provided you with evidence that there were fights that were fixed, two fighters who were in PRIDE said "Fixed fights happened", why does it matter which fights I beleive were fixed when people who were actually there said "They fixed some fights"?

One fixed fight, which has proven to be fixed, is too many. But, if you insist...

Takada vs. Coleman
Ogawa vs. Leko
Ogawa vs. Silva

Those fights I firmly believed they were fixed. But there's evidence that states that PRIDE fixed fights, I dunno why you seem to struggle with unequivocal evidence.

 

[ethanfranklin]

There is no "integrity" in prize fighting, it's guys fighting for money, put on by businessmen, for money. You want integrity? You remove the money. But you remove the money, you virtually eradicate the sport.

Now, pick ANY fight promotion, and there's ZERO integrity.

UFC - Ridiculous ticket prices, fighters out of a job for innocuous things.
PRIDE - A handful of Fixed fights, no drug testing, changing rules to suit their chosen fighters.
M-1 - Unreasonable Co-Promotion stipulation for one fighter, executive openly coaching a fighter when they're supposed to remain openly impartial.
Ultimate Challenge UK - Fixed fights
Elite XC - Trying to pay off fighters to fight a certain way, stacking the deck in Kimbo's favour.
KSW - Stacking the deck in Pudzianowski's favour.

I can keep going, but it's the same in EVERY professional prize fighting endeavour. But, I suppose this is mainly a "The UFC is the only one doing it" thread.

If money can be made from a professional sport, then it's open to corruption. FIFA is perhaps the most corrupt sporting organisation in the world, but there's a shitload of money to be made. If money can be made from a kid throwing a rock at a tree, it's gonna be corrupt.

Fixed

It's not about which fights I "believe" to be fixed, I provided you with evidence that there were fights that were fixed, two fighters who were in PRIDE said "Fixed fights happened", why does it matter which fights I beleive were fixed when people who were actually there said "They fixed some fights"?

Mayhem says UFC is fixed. So what.

Its about accuracy. You dont seem to understand what that means.

 

[Mikedh]

Never did MMA or fighting have more integrity than when Daiju Takase fought Emmanuel Yarborough.

 

[jerbson]

Honestly I think the UFC takes the legitimacy of the sport thing too far. The entire production aspect is boring imo. I wouldn't mind seeing some fun fights thrown in with guys from different weight classes meeting at catch weights. Everything is so focused on the titles. The mind set seems to be if you not progressing towards the belt then your not viable.

Edit: Most people would hate this idea but I wouldn't mind seeing more options for ring attire to help with grappling. I liked in pride how the gi was an option. There are some pretty sick chokes you can pull off with a gi and it of course has it's downsides so it isn't an advantage.

 

[Smigg]

Fixed



Mayhem says UFC is fixed. So what.

Its about accuracy. You dont seem to understand what that means.

"A handful of fixed fights" and "Fixed fights" are synonyms, it makes the exact same point.

It seems like you're so intent on defending PRIDE to the hilt, that you're basically trying to move the goalposts, I said "PRIDE fixed fights". You asked for evidence, I provided evidence. That still doesn't satisfy you. On top of that, you putting "A handful" doesn't change the fact that they still fixed fights, you tried to "fix" it, but it still makes the EXACT same point. Congratulations.

 

[ethanfranklin]

"A handful of fixed fights" and "Fixed fights" are synonyms, it makes the exact same point.

It seems like you're so intent on defending PRIDE to the hilt, that you're basically trying to move the goalposts, I said "PRIDE fixed fights". You asked for evidence, I provided evidence. That still doesn't satisfy you. On top of that, you putting "A handful" doesn't change the fact that they still fixed fights, you tried to "fix" it, but it still makes the EXACT same point. Congratulations.

So a handful of fixed fights is correct.

3 fixed fights in your estimation.

Thank you for conceding the point so gracefully.

Your evidence is not unequivocal. You simply dont understand the meaning of the word unequivocal.

 

[Smigg]

So a handful of fixed fights is correct.

3 fixed fights in your estimation.

Thank you for conceding the point so gracefully.

Your evidence is not unequivocal. You simply dont understand the meaning of the word unequivocal.

Sure, whatever you say.

You don't seem to understand that ONE fight that is fixed is too many. What you're basically saying is "It's alright that PRIDE fixed fights, it's wasn't that many". Think about it this way, if a football team fixes ONE game, they're in deep shit. David Haye and Audley Harrison were accused of fixing a fight, they got investigated, if there was adequate evidence, they'd have been in deep shit. PRIDE does it, that's okay, so long as there aren't that many?

Yes or no, were there ANY fixed fights in PRIDE?

Also, I said that I "firmly believed" those three fights were fixed, there could be more, considering in a thread, which has evidence provided lists FIVE, still, like I said, ONE is too many, but I forgot, it's alright if there aren't many :wink:

 

[Mau]

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

 

[ethanfranklin]

Sure, whatever you say.

You don't seem to understand that ONE fight that is fixed is too many. What you're basically saying is "It's alright that PRIDE fixed fights, it's wasn't that many".

Yes or no, were there ANY fixed fights in PRIDE?

Its not what i said.

Takada vs. Coleman
Ogawa vs. Leko
Ogawa vs. Silva

Its what you said.

I didnt make any accusations, i just questioned yours.

3 fights it is then.

 

[Smigg]

Its not what i said.




Its what you said.

I didnt make any accusations, i just questioned yours.

3 fights it is then.

Are you honestly some kind of idiot?

How is you "fixing" my quote of there being "fixed fights" in PRIDE to "a handful of fixed fights", making any kind of argument? It's the same point, with a few words tacked on at the beginning.

There is no "accusation", the proof is there, I provided it, you can't find anything to the contrary that says they didn't.

 

[Mau]

One fixed fight is enough IMO.

Shit promotion.

 

[BrainLeakage]

It matters to me in the sense that without integrity, I'm not sure I'll be able to enjoy it in 20 years.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I believe in sports integrity but there is a fine line. The UFC is a business and is in the PPV market. It's also not a classic sport like baseball, football, soccer and basketball.

If I were to ever find out UFC was fixing fights, I would stop watching. That would be my main concern.

Other than that, I don't have a problem with them promoting "storylines" or fighter personalities. For rankings, I'd prefer them to be meaningful and only the #1 ranked guy getting a title shot but sometimes that always doesn't make for good TV and they have a PPV to sell. That's the real fine line there and you have to take it on a case by case basis.

I think UFC is doing a good job over all with how the promotion works. Most of their problems lie within the judging, commissions, reffing and unified rules. Stuff they don't have much control over.

 

[ethanfranklin]

One fixed fight is enough IMO.

Shit promotion.

You are calling UFC a shit promotion.

I never thought id hear you say it.

Heres this from a senior moderators post on the FAQs.

Fixed fights-

Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.

Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:

Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.

 

[BreakUrBank]

If Dana doesn't care about the "integrity of the sport", why do you?

 

[Mau]

You are calling UFC a shit promotion.

I never thought id hear you say it.

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm some kind of UFC lover or anything close to that.

I like MMA, I watch from Romani Fight (promotion based on my city, yeah, you don't know) to UFC to Invicta, I honestly don't care the name or the based country or whatever.

But I'm not an idiot, without the UFC we're left with all the shows that have what, five fighters that we care? Yes, it's shitty promotion, shady as hell, like every business in the world. I won't stop watching because of it, because I care about the fighters and the fights.

I don't like to fight losing fights, me against the world. But to each their own, I have more important things to worry about.

 

[unfinishable]

What worries me is the direction the ufc is going lately. I originally got interested in mma because of the lack of restrictions, any combat style (or discipline) againsts another. The fighters have evolved and are more well rounded, but each fighter still has their own style and can do whatever they want.
Lately, it seems the ufc is trying to influence the styles fighters bring to the cage, they would prefer a grappler to stand and bang with a striker because it is more "entertaining".
The entertainment factor should be a result of a fight, and yes, there will be some "less entertaining" fights but imo, this is real and normal. Restricting styles is not real mma and would favor some fighters over others

 

[Balzak]

What worries me is the direction the ufc is going lately. I originally got interested in mma because of the lack of restrictions, any combat style (or discipline) againsts another. The fighters have evolved and are more well rounded, but each fighter still has their own style and can do whatever they want.
Lately, it seems the ufc is trying to influence the styles fighters bring to the cage, they would prefer a grappler to stand and bang with a striker because it is more "entertaining".
The entertainment factor should be a result of a fight, and yes, there will be some "less entertaining" fights but imo, this is real and normal. Restricting styles is not real mma and would favor some fighters over others

exactly what I dislike about UFC

 

[Karp]

Have a legit voted HOF and hespect the legends. UFC needs to embrace it's history and assume the role of being the face of MMA by presenting the legends in a good light.

Stephan Bonnar is in the HOF and Sakuraba is not.

Completely agree. With inductees such as Bonnar, Mask, I think the UFC HOF is a complete farce.

 

[Street Level]

It has none. WTF are you talking about.