Instruction of BJJ and other traditional martial arts

[chokingvictim]

It seems like the posts about BJJ instruction keep coming up, and questions are always asked about whether or not a purple belt in BJJ is good enough to learn under. I think it brings up an important distinction between traditional martial arts like karate, and BJJ.
In karate, someone who has not yet reached the brown or black belt level probably has not yet learned to control or defend well against a larger opponent of equal or greater athletic ability. However, a purple or even a blue belt in BJJ is probably more than capable of defending against larger guys, because they are probably used to rolling with bigger guys and have learned how to defeat them with little effort.
People are probably used to karate schools in their area, and the instructor is always a 40th degree black belt. They go to a BJJ school, and the instructor isn't even a 1st degree black belt?! They immediately question if the guy is qualified to teach them anything.
What is it that makes people think that someone has to wear the black belt to teach them something? Any thoughts?

 

[Coach Couzo]

Too many Kung Fu movies - tradition.

On another note,
On average it takes 8-15 years to achieve Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with the fastest being 4 years (Lloyd Irvin, B.J. Penn, many Gracie family members, et al).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_jiu-jitsu

Whereas, in a more traditional MA, like TKD, the time to black belt is much shorter - 2 years or so.

So, the rank is not as good a gauge of proficiency as the time spent in the particular MA. Alas, this topic is discussed quite a bit amongst BJJ circles.

 

[aaron_mag]

Heh heh

I see BJJ running into this problem again and again. In traditional martial arts it takes about 4 to 5 years to get your black belt. This is even for the casual practitioner (a guy who shows up three times a week).

BJJ, however, has this crazy belt system where many people who train 10+ years will not ever get their black belt (a casual practitioner). So a high blue/purple is easily the equivalent of a black in most other styles.

Which is cool and all, and very hardcore, but seems to create problems at the lower levels. You're always hearing people bitching about sandbagging at the lower levels in BJJ tournaments. At the higher levels it all works out, but because a guy can be a white belt or a blue belt forever you get guys who trounce on the poor newbs (again, from what I understand from this board).

 

[blanko]

bjj is about how much effort you put into it. If you do it casually or time to time for 3 years you will not be as good as someone who does it 7 days a week 4 hours a day for a year. So it does not matter how "long" you had a certain belt lvl. Besides, no one stays in a belt lvl for the heck of it in bjj. People dont' want to stay at blues and purples so they can win at a weekend tourney.

 

[triso]

Lets put it this way, if the person has the ability to teach, and he has more EXPERIENCE then you, then you CAN learn from. YOu can always learn from someone who has more experience then you.

Most of the time the people who are purple and teaching already are still training Jiu Jitsu, so they are still growing and gaining experience. If you are white belt and you roll with blue and train with blues, don't you LEARN from them? Of course you do.

Now, whether someone wants to pay a certain price for intruction, and wants to be taught by a black belt is totally on them, but they can obviously learn from a higher belt who is not black belt level.

It's also true that the quality of belts in BJJ is different. It takes much longer to get rank, and there are only 5 you can achieve in the first place. A purple belt in Jiu Jitsu has been said to know pretty much the same amount as blacks, it's just the difference in experience and experimenting that makes that black belt SO much better.

 

[triso]

I took Boxing for 2+ years, and although I don't consider myself any kind of expert at all, I still teach my brother-in-law (who does it more for recreation and fun). While getting instruction from me is not the best route, he has certainly improved his game due to my experience and ability to point out flaws in his form, and explain WHY things are done.

 

[chokingvictim]

Good comments. I think that the shorter time span needed to get a black belt in karate and tkd definitely contributes to the average person thinking they need to train under a black belt. If only they knew how good a BJJ purple has to be to get to that point.
Plus you see karate and aikido instructors that have big beer bellies, and are totally out of shape, but they have the black belt. So people probably think "if this guy can be a black belt, how much does that BJJ guy down the road suck if he can't get a black belt and this guy can?!"
I'm just guessing. I can't really know for sure because I know too much about different martial arts.

 

[Ghostrider]

Good comments. I think that the shorter time span needed to get a black belt in karate and tkd definitely contributes to the average person thinking they need to train under a black belt. If only they knew how good a BJJ purple has to be to get to that point.
Plus you see karate and aikido instructors that have big beer bellies, and are totally out of shape, but they have the black belt. So people probably think "if this guy can be a black belt, how much does that BJJ guy down the road suck if he can't get a black belt and this guy can?!"
I'm just guessing. I can't really know for sure because I know too much about different martial arts.

Anyway, I agree with the posters that mention the time it takes to achieve a black belt in BJJ. The BJJ practitioner earns his belt through years of commitment which , as it turns out, is harder to achieve than the practitioners of other martial arts.

I was with you until the beer belly comment. Some of this is just plain genetics When you can't run as much as you used to (work , injuries, laziness) and just can't stop eating, it is bound to happen. **hides beer belly** :icon_chee

 

[aaron_mag]

Anyway, I agree with the posters that mention the time it takes to achieve a black belt in BJJ. The BJJ practitioner earns his belt through years of commitment which , as it turns out, is harder to achieve than the practitioners of other martial arts.

I was with you until the beer belly comment. Some of this is just plain genetics When you can't run as much as you used to (work , injuries, laziness) and just can't stop eating, it is bound to happen. **hides beer belly** :icon_chee

Ha ha...I'm with you dude. No one would say I have a beer belly, but I am 20 plus pounds more than I used to be. Back in college I was a midfield in lacrosse. Used to run all the damn time.

But then again some of the guys I grapple with have a gut who used to be college wrestlers. It really sucks when they weight you.