Media Inside The UFC’s Pseudoscience Crisis

[spinup]

A bit unusual thread but I found interesting this article on the BS health practice in the UIFC (and high level sports in general). Mainly about the inutility of cupping, cryotherapy and ice baths.
They could have added kinesio-tape, BS chiropracters with hammers and chisels or neck cracking shit. Lots of money and time wasted by the fighters.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/inside-the-ufcs-pseudoscience-crisis/

 

[Ajax41]

The skeptical inquirer? You must be a riot at parties.

if you’re actually gonna sit here and say ice baths and cryotherapy are useless than I’ve got nothing for you.

 

[spinup]

The skeptical inquirer? You must be a riot at parties.

if you’re actually gonna sit here and say ice baths and cryotherapy are useless than I’ve got nothing for you.

I can see you got nothing for me.
I am not just going to sit here and say they are useless. I will tell you they probably have an effect...a negative one.

 

[Benji Snap]

"Pseudoscience CRISIS" <45>

These dorks are insufferable. Anything and everything that is not sponsored by Pfizer is a scam to them.

 

[jeff7b9]

Even if the ice baths benefit is limited to building mental toughness, that is still a valuable attribute for a fighter.

Some pretty high level bro scientists seem to think they aid hormone release/production.

 

[Get To Da Choppa]

A bit unusual thread but I found interesting this article on the BS health practice in the UIFC (and high level sports in general). Mainly about the inutility of cupping, cryotherapy and ice baths.
They could have added kinesio-tape, BS chiropracters with hammers and chisels or neck cracking shit. Lots of money and time wasted by the fighters.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/inside-the-ufcs-pseudoscience-crisis/

You can also find peer reviewed studies that show treatments like cryotherapy being efficacious. These guys get punched everyday for a living. If undergoing these treatments make them feel good and confident, that may be the edge they need to succeed

Also, this is the guy that wrote the article. I think he should go back to being a fireman or an astronaut instead of a doctor

 

[kingghidrah]

The sports world is full of superstition, guys wear the same damn underwear all season b/c they think they will lose otherwise

After that, you can see why they believe in sports tape and other stuff that lots of other athletes are doing.

 

[Blastbeat]

ACTHKUALLLYYYY
written by a dork with no combat experience. opinion disregarded.

 

[spinup]

Even if the ice baths benefit is limited to building mental toughness, that is still a valuable attribute for a fighter.

Some pretty high level bro scientists seem to think they aid hormone release/production.

Yeah. Ice baths are probably the least problematic of the list. They have some benefits for pain and immediate trauma recovery. Not sure the mental tougness is really a thing... get your balls frozen is not the same as getting punched in the face, getting used to one doesn't mean you're getting used to the other.

And some scientists argue they are hindering muscle growth and that reducing inflammation is not necessarily a good thing as it's a useful physiological process.

 

[Karelinator]

Damn, the bit about ice bathing being harmful is pretty brutal.

In the end, being warrior etc. was usually full of various rituals that usually made no sense, but still played their part by giving someone ritual to participate in.

Just human things.

 

[stormcloud67]

Icebaths don't work?
Interesting.
Tell that to my reconstructed knee(over 20 years now) and I am sure it will laugh at you.

For the record, I played two more football seasons, 2 mma fights, an Ironman 70.3 and an ultra on it. It's been 20 years and the ice bath is my emergency effort if the knee acts up a bit and it almost always works.

But I am not a doctor, so what do I know

 

[spinup]

ACTHKUALLLYYYY
written by a dork with no combat experience. opinion disregarded.

Athletes are the least reliable source to tell what is efficient or not.
In all sports you'll find top level athletes using ridiculous therapies, diets or enhancing devices.

 

[markys00]

Yeah. Ice baths are probably the least problematic of the list. They have some benefits for pain and immediate trauma recovery. Not sure the mental tougness is really a thing... get your balls frozen is not the same as getting punched in the face, getting used to one doesn't mean you're getting used to the other.

And some scientists argue they are hindering muscle growth and that reducing inflammation is not necessarily a good thing as it's a useful physiological process.

So you admit it's effective? So it's not BS now? You changed ur tune fast

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I feel like this is stretching the suitability of the word crisis.

 

[spinup]

I feel like this is stretching the suitability of the word crisis.

Well...stretching is also a super overrated thing if you want to go that route.

 

[j18lee]

A bit unusual thread but I found interesting this article on the BS health practice in the UIFC (and high level sports in general). Mainly about the inutility of cupping, cryotherapy and ice baths.
They could have added kinesio-tape, BS chiropracters with hammers and chisels or neck cracking shit. Lots of money and time wasted by the fighters.

https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/inside-the-ufcs-pseudoscience-crisis/

I'll be honest, when I read your post and the name of the website: "skeptical inquirer: the magazine of science and reason", my first impression was wow, what an idiot. When a website/organization have to explicitly say they are "science and reason", it's usually because they are the opposite and are trying to deliberately fool the easily fooled - i.e. Christian Science, Pro-Life, etc.

But to my surprise, the author seems legit, has some real credentials (which doesn't always mean he's 100% legit, as there are quack doctors who are idiots, anti-vaxxers) and he does make some valid points and seems to also have some scientific studies to back them up. Again, plenty of UFO conspiracists and flat earthers have "scientific studies" to back them up too, so I take that with a grain of salt.

That said, I have always thought cupping was ridiculous. I was a pretty serious amateur athlete in my 20-30s - marathons, boxed competitively, heavy lifting. I tried cupping and kinesio-tape and found them to be utterly useless. However, ice baths have worked wonders for my recovery from long distance training runs (15-20 miles). My inflammation was reduced significantly and the very next day I wasn't hobbling around as much and I could train longer and more often. Like my knees would literally feel warm extremely for hours and I would hurt the next day if didn't do ice treatment. I don't always do ice baths, so I definitely felt the difference between the times I do and the times I don't.

Also, I had two medically diagnosed herniated discs at different times, one in the neck and one in the lower back. Did all the X-rays, MRIs, PT as recommended. Saw two neurosurgeons and both recommended surgery. I was close to doing it but I hesitated because they said they can't promise me that I can go back to lifting heavy and running marathons. However, I tried chiropractor with a bit of skepticism. Seriously, the first time, I was back to running 5-10 miles within a month, and that's after about six months of pain that limited me to 3 miles max. And second time, I was in pain for 3 years and didn't lift heavy (dropped weights on myself twice benching). Then after a year of chiro treatment, I am back to benching 200+ again.

So for me, cupping and kinesio-tape seemed like pseudo science, but ice baths and chiro has worked wonders for me.

 

[Blastbeat]

Athletes are the least reliable source to tell what is efficient or not.
In all sports you'll find top level athletes using ridiculous therapies, diets or enhancing devices.

and outside of sports youll find suits and glasses telling professional fighters what theyre supposed to feel/think. without ever doing any of these things themselves.
research, read all you want; doing the thing is the best knowledge.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Well...stretching is also a super overrated thing if you want to go that route.

Tell that to my hamstrings if I don't stretch off before exercise.

 

[TerrorTimmy]

Yeah. Ice baths are probably the least problematic of the list. They have some benefits for pain and immediate trauma recovery. Not sure the mental tougness is really a thing... get your balls frozen is not the same as getting punched in the face, getting used to one doesn't mean you're getting used to the other.

And some scientists argue they are hindering muscle growth and that reducing inflammation is not necessarily a good thing as it's a useful physiological process.

Reducing swelling and inflammation is inherently beneficial for athletes and aids recovery time. Period. Whether it negatively affects muscle growth is somewhat irrelevant as muscle growth isn't the only objective of training. This isn't a strongman competition or whatever. This is a high intensity, highly skilled sport where fighters train a lot and need to be able to do the same thing the next day without being stiff and sore, and this is part of that process.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

I was actually under the impression that ice baths were pretty validated on a scientific front (anecdotally, I've also done variants of them myself and it always seems to help me), so that's interesting to me.

I'm pretty involved in science on a career front (nothing related to these topics though) so I'm definitely interested in doing a deeper and more intentional study on what (high-level) studies say on that topic.