Inside Boeing’s F-18 Pitch To White House; Fewer F-35Cs Means Shorter Fight

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WASHINGTON: If the Navy would buy one squadron of new F-18s (known as the XT, Block 3 or Advanced Super Hornet) instead of the carrier version of the F-35 it “actually improves overall mission capability, while substantially reducing cost.”

But the Navy could go even one better and buy two squadrons of the new F-18, which would give the Navy “the best capability affordably.” Buying 120 Super Hornets and 200 of the Advanced Super Hornets (which is what their plan would work out to) would save $8 billion in procurement costs each year plus $1.4 billion in operations and maintenance costs each year, the report claims.

That’s the essence of the story that Boeing is telling the Pentagon and the White House, according to a Boeing document I obtained that was presented to White House officials. The document marks a shift in Boeing’s efforts. In years past the pitch was, essentially, buy more Super Hornets. Now the company wants to convince the Pentagon to shift the balance between the F-18 and the F-35 in favor of their plane. That push has gained much momentum since President Trump’s famous tweets about the F-35’s high costs, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis ordering a review of the costs and capabilities of the F-35C and F-18 and the news that the Navy fighter fleet is in what analysts are calling a death spiral.


As the headline for Sydney’s story about Navy Department readiness notes, 62 percent of F-18 Hornets are unfit to fly and the number for the Marines is up to 74 percent.

On costs, the paper says the advanced Hornet would cost $79 million all up — including government gear — while Boeing pegs the F-35C’s total weapon cost at $120 million.

A source familiar with the F-35 program says F-35C costs should be around $100 million by 2021. The source concedes that cost per flying hour is a bit higher for the C but it is, of course, a truly stealthy aircraft while the F-18 is not.

http://breakingdefense.com/2017/03/...white-house-fewer-f-35cs-means-shorter-fight/


How in the hell is Boeing making these claims that the F-18 is better fighter then the F-35?






Trump needs to stop talking, the plane would need more then this to be up to 5th gen standards and it would mean actually fiddling and mods to the frame which i doubt boeing is willing to do
 
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LOL at Boeing
 
Just Boeing being Boeing. They're probably hoping to cut into F35C orders rather than take its place outright. Puts more pressure on LM to sort out the kinks in the C model quickly though which is not a bad thing necessarily.

We'll never see a Super Hornet variant with the capabilities of an F35 - you are correct there. Signature reduction will never compare, ditto for sensor suite/fusion, and kinematics under combat load. It's like expecting an F4 Phantom to perform like an F15C - never gonna happen.
 
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Just Boeing being Boeing. They're probably hoping to cut into F35C orders rather than take its place outright. Puts more pressure on LM to sort out the kinks in the C model quickly though which is not a bad thing necessarily.

We'll never see a Super Hornet variant with the capabilities of an F35 - you are correct there. Signature reduction will never compare, ditto for sensor suite/fusion, and kinematics under combat load. It's like expecting an F4 Phantom to perform like an F15C - never gonna happen.


unless they plan on doing somer altercations to the frame with i doubt boeing has the balls to do, they need to stop. Maybe they can upgrade some ofthe current F-18s
 
Just let any one anyone really other then Lockheed make and fast track a 5.5 gen Navy aircraft and voila.
 
Who cares. Neither plane is ever going to be used in any sort of meaningful battle. Might as well just park them in Jay Leno's garage.
 
unless they plan on doing somer altercations to the frame with i doubt boeing has the balls to do, they need to stop. Maybe they can upgrade some ofthe current F-18s

The ASH already involves significant alterations to the airframe. The "alterations" you'd need to do in order to get something comparable in capability to an F35 would effectively result in a clean sheet design (ie. not a Hornet). You can't retrofit a VLO signature onto yesterday's non-VLO technology.
 
The ASH already involves significant alterations to the airframe. The "alterations" you'd need to do in order to get something comparable in capability to an F35 would effectively result in a clean sheet design (ie. not a Hornet). You can't retrofit a VLO signature onto yesterday's non-VLO technology.


figured, boeing needs to stop talking.



why don't they ask northrop to dust off the yf-23 =/


(will never happen but i thought i try lol)
 
figured, boeing needs to stop talking.



why don't they ask northrop to dust off the yf-23 =/


(will never happen but i thought i try lol)

Technology has moved past the YF23 too. You might see some geometric similarities between it and something like F(X)/PCA eventually but that's as close as that one's going to get.
 
Technology has moved past the YF23 too. You might see some geometric similarities between it and something like F(X)/PCA eventually but that's as close as that one's going to get.


thank god the 6th gen is gonna get 2 frame not one company does all.


one for the navy and one for the airforce
 
thank god the 6th gen is gonna get 2 frame not one company does all.


one for the navy and one for the airforce

That's the plan. The requirements for both are likely to differ considerably, hence the separate programs.
 
That's the plan. The requirements for both are likely to differ considerably, hence the separate programs.


Thank fucking god, im liking beings 6th gen concept

BI232269.jpg


bb0a458ca89dba2999fc7e30964f7de0.jpg

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25727/trump-funding-next-generation-fighter/

if this is true, i bet there might be something before 2030? maybe 2025?
 
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eh its gettting a lot better so ill give it a the benfit of the doubt. We dont have any other program to replace it for now.

You don't need one. Ref Red Flag results.

Thank fucking god, im liking beings 6th gen concept

BI232269.jpg


bb0a458ca89dba2999fc7e30964f7de0.jpg

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25727/trump-funding-next-generation-fighter/

if this is true, i bet there might be something before 2030? maybe 2025?

Wouldn't bet on seeing anything serious before the 2030s. The only thing that could speed that up, AFAIK, is if the USN do get suckered into buying too many Super Hornets instead of F35s, leaving them with a fast jet fleet that won't reliably survive a modern A2/AD environment post ~2025. In that case F/A(XX) could become more urgent.

Doubt it will be an issue though. With an F35 supporter like Mattis in office I suspect F35C will forge ahead more or less as planned.
 
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