In terms of raw talent WW does not compare to LW

TheItalianStallion said:
Solid, not nearly as good as 155
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Deontay isn't exactly "normal" looking, but Tyson really looks like he's put together with spare parts.

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Spare parts that would beat all of our asses.
 
TheItalianStallion said:
Welterweight has far regressed since GSP. Lawler who was never elite won the belt, Woodley held on to the belt for years by beating 1 dimensional fighters like Thompson, Till and Maia, all 3 got starched by lightweights fairly easily. Gilbert Burns who is fighting for a belt and could very well be the next champion at 170, got rekt by Dan Hooker in 1 round, Masvidal a career journeyman who lost to fringe top 10 Al Iaquinta is in the top 3 (controversial decision or not). WW for the most part has good fighters but it is the inferior beta division compared to 155
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WWW didn't only regress since GSP. IMO it was lacking depth even during GSP's reign.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but in hindsight the list of people GSP defended against wasn't all that impressive either:
1. Serra: undersized
2. Fitch: 1-dimensional grinder (great at grinding people out, but still...)
3. Penn: GOAT level LW during his prime, but significantly undersized at WW
4. Alves: leg kick beast, but not well-rounded
5. Hardy: love the guy as a commentator, but would never have been champ even without GSP
6. Koshcheck: good fighter, but not elite
7. Shields
8. Condit
9. Diaz: no TDD, and while I love the guy he has zero fight IQ
10. Hendricks

So the only guys who were truly very good to great at WWW who fought GSP when they were still good were Condit, Shields, and especially Hendricks. Hendricks was a freaking beast for a short window of time.

Not taking away anything from GSP - defending so many times does matter - but the level of comp at WWW for a long time has paled to the talent at LW. LW has been much more of a shark tank and much deeper.
 
Barteh said:
Khabib is so dominant that he's got two legit title fight wins (Al should've never fought for the title).

He's miles behind the greats like Anderson, GSP and Jones and he shouldn't be anywhere near that conversation.
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lool. Anderson with his weak ass competition? Khabib is up there whether you like it or not.
 
I love when someone has an opinion and then just tries to stack the deck to make their point more valid by shitting on this side and glorifying this other side. It's like a 10 year old trying to be a lawyer. This former champion sucked, wasn't elite and hardly was even a gatekeeper durr...Why can't people just say things how they are?
 
Cejudo, Yan, Sterling, Moraes, Dillashaw

All of those guys are better fighters than Hooker, Poirier, and Felder
 
when your in fights like lawler was. 2 hendricks fights, rory, condit. those wars take fights off the end of your career.
 
Khabib is dominating because there’s no wrestlers or elite grapplers in the LW top 5 vs WW, most of the top 5 in WW are wrestlers / elite grapplers. LW top 5 is mostly strikers excluding Khabib and maybe Tony. The welterweights top 5 are way more talented than the LW top 5. Leon and Masvidal are better strikers than Poirier and Tony. Usman, Colby, Woodley and Burns are better grapplers than anyone in LW except MAYBE Khabib.
 
TheItalianStallion said:
Khabib has achieved more dominance in his division than any other current UFC champ save from Jon Jones. The top 5 at LW have all had a belt (in some form) around their waste and are all killers. Welterweight has far regressed since GSP. Lawler who was never elite won the belt, Woodley held on to the belt for years by beating 1 dimensional fighters like Thompson, Till and Maia, all 3 got starched by lightweights fairly easily. Gilbert Burns who is fighting for a belt and could very well be the next champion at 170, got rekt by Dan Hooker in 1 round, Masvidal a career journeyman who lost to fringe top 10 Al Iaquinta is in the top 3 (controversial decision or not). WW for the most part has good fighters but it is the inferior beta division compared to 155
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I don't necessarily disagree, WW has had 3 (possibly 4) Champions in the last 8 years that likely never would have tasted the title had GSP not left but skill for skill the WW top 5 is also extremely solid.

The LW top 5 currently only has 1 guy in it who held an undisputed title but that guy has no business being ranked at all, let alone at 4th with 1 win in 4 years and only 4 top 10 wins in his entire career. It's yet to be determined if he's a "killer" since he does his best to avoid fighting contenders at LW.

As for your take on Jorge because he "lost" (a bullshit decision) to "fringe top 10 Al" you do realize that's the same Al Khabib won the belt from right? Doesn't seem all that impressive when you look at it that way.

Dustin was not an Elite FW but became an Elite LW when he moved up, Jorge was a top 10 LW but became a top 5 WW when he moved up, Whitaker was a fringe contender at WW but became a MW Champion when he moved up. Rumble was a fringe contender at WW before moving up to eventually become a top LHW, same with Santos and Smith at MW and the list goes on.

Basically what I'm saying here is ya, LW has long been one of if not the most competitive division but to disparage the top WWs because they were beat by LWs who found they performed better if they stopped cutting so much weight is kind of dumb, as is calling them "LWs" if they are now competing full time at WW instead of cutting down to a weight they only ever actually weigh long enough to step on a scale.

I mean by that standard LW isn't actually that good either since there are 3 "FWs" in the top 10 making FW the best division.
 
I believe WW will always be the prime division because that's where the average male in prime physical condition will fall when cutting weight. Statistically, that will have the most fighters and therefore the most talent. 155 and 185 are the next deepest, then 145 and 205. Then you have the shallow BW/Flyweight and HW. Why do you think the same heavyweights have been around forever, and sloppy "athletes" like Greg Hardy can do alright on the highest stage?

Now, if Sherdog had a fight league for us commenters, flyweight would have to start at 235 lbs of natty muscle, cause anything less than that is a manlet on here.
 
Barteh said:
Khabib is so dominant that he's got two legit title fight wins (Al should've never fought for the title).

He's miles behind the greats like Anderson, GSP and Jones and he shouldn't be anywhere near that conversation.
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So true. Only nuthuggers will disagree.
 
DeeDubb said:
I believe WW will always be the prime division because that's where the average male in prime physical condition will fall when cutting weight. Statistically, that will have the most fighters and therefore the most talent. 155 and 185 are the next deepest, then 145 and 205. Then you have the shallow BW/Flyweight and HW. Why do you think the same heavyweights have been around forever, and sloppy "athletes" like Greg Hardy can do alright on the highest stage?

Now, if Sherdog had a fight league for us commenters, flyweight would have to start at 235 lbs of natty muscle, cause anything less than that is a manlet on here.
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While I generally agree with your quote (especially how FLW and HW tend to be shallower), I don't agree that WW guys cutting weight to 170lb are bigger than the average male, even in shape male.
In the US the average height is 5'9''.

I'd think that LW, FW and BW would be the deepest.
 
Kumason said:
I love when someone has an opinion and then just tries to stack the deck to make their point more valid by shitting on this side and glorifying this other side. It's like a 10 year old trying to be a lawyer. This former champion sucked, wasn't elite and hardly was even a gatekeeper durr...Why can't people just say things how they are?
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Because MMA fans always have to argue
 
ProperLad said:
Khabib is dominating because there’s no wrestlers or elite grapplers in the LW top 5 vs WW, most of the top 5 in WW are wrestlers / elite grapplers. LW top 5 is mostly strikers excluding Khabib and maybe Tony. The welterweights top 5 are way more talented than the LW top 5. Leon and Masvidal are better strikers than Poirier and Tony. Usman, Colby, Woodley and Burns are better grapplers than anyone in LW except MAYBE Khabib.
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I've been saying this forever but no, "Poirier is a black belt".

News flash sherdog, nearly everybody in the UFC is either a black belt or a wrestler. There's levels to that shit
 
ProperLad said:
Khabib is dominating because there’s no wrestlers or elite grapplers in the LW top 5 vs WW, most of the top 5 in WW are wrestlers / elite grapplers. LW top 5 is mostly strikers excluding Khabib and maybe Tony. The welterweights top 5 are way more talented than the LW top 5. Leon and Masvidal are better strikers than Poirier and Tony. Usman, Colby, Woodley and Burns are better grapplers than anyone in LW except MAYBE Khabib.
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so why did burns get beat up by average lw's and beating top 5 guys at ww
 
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