im pretty sure 50/50 guard kills my halfguard leg lock game

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by TheIronGiraffe, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. TheIronGiraffe

    TheIronGiraffe Orange Belt

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    so I finally finished ryan halls 50/50 instructional and he shows a counter to the halfguard from bottom kneebar. Basically when I'm on half guard bottom and I go for the far side kneebar all my opponent has to do is step over the leg and he gets 50/50 with an inverted heel hook. I want to add 50/50 to my game but I don't wanna discard my current leglock game which is mostly from halfguard or anaconda guard, but it kinda feels like this position trumps a lot of my current set ups. I was wondering what some of the boards leglockers think about 50/50 mainly playing against it using other types of leglock setups.
     
  2. Fallen

    Fallen Brown Belt

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    In my opinion, the 50/50 isn't dynamic enough for me to implement as a regular part of my game. It works great to shut down your opponent's offense but if they are even remotely savvy at the position, your game is also slowed to a crawl. It's a nice option to have, but for some reason I can't shake the bias that I harbor towards it being a strong stall tactic.
     
  3. TheIronGiraffe

    TheIronGiraffe Orange Belt

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    Yeah I've definitely heard that criticism of it, but the way hall shows it is you attack the heel when you enter. It seems pretty effective
     
  4. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Ah there's a lot I want to say but I just can't get it right in my head. I'll be back. Maybe Mikey Triangles will come by, he uses the 50/50 a lot and will surely have some good insight.
     
  5. sambosteve

    sambosteve Purple Belt

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    Outside leg triangle position is Ok, not the best control for legs. But, if you are in strict BJJ rules event, it is one of the better ones that is legal. The best ones involve reaping the leg which is illegal in BJJ (not grappling events though). It definitely works, but as mentioned can cause a stall if it becomes a full 50/50. If you are working an outside leg triangle (especially if you are working rev heel hook), you also leave your opponant's free leg available which is never the best option as he needs that to defend, counter, stack, move, etc. The best leg control positions are ones where the free leg is also under your control.

    Don't get me wrong, I will grab outside leg triangle it if it is there and I can't get a better position, but I do it knowing I will have more work ahead of me.
     
  6. TheIronGiraffe

    TheIronGiraffe Orange Belt

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    Keep in mind I'm only a bluebelt and I realize I'm still learning and forming my game but it seemed like the 50/50 counters a lot of your more conventional leg locks. I'm glad you commented because I was really interested in a sambo style leglock guys approach to 50/50.. ie beating it, dealing with it etc..

    I guess I've got to play around with 5050 and see if I can incorporate it or at least learn counters.
     
  7. chunglii

    chunglii No Me Duele Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    50/50 is pretty useless to be honest
     
  8. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    How so?
     
  9. raines513

    raines513 Blue Belt

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    Disagree, I use it all the time if someone tries to pull guard on me. you can easily get a knee bar, straight ankle lock, ankle lock, (heel hook which is the easiest move to get from the position).

    I train the 50/50 position often,and at my gym im even known for it.

    so, yea not useless imo.
     
  10. sambosteve

    sambosteve Purple Belt

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    If it is a true 50/50 where you both are in identical situations working for identical subs, it is so easy to stall out. This is why I distinguish between outside leg triangle and 50/50. 50/50 becomes a race or a stall. It is kind of a dumb position to be in as you can't advance very well and you are stuck in a simultaneous attack/defense mode. There is not much superiority...like a stalemate (if both guys are of relatively equal skill).

    But, if you are in a 50/50, I suggest trying to roll your opponent so your foot is on the low side (trapped between him and the mat). This way he has less room to work and you have more (as his foot will be on the high side and free of obstruction). This gives you an advantage and the playing field is not equal any longer.

    Also here is a vid that may help you. Note the title says "outside leg triangle". While I may say "50/50" in the video, I don't really show a true "50/50". I kinda just used it as a common phrase (though not accurate...it was my bad). But the defense I show can be used in the 50/50 as well.

    YouTube - October 2009 Technique
     
  11. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    it's called 50/50 for a reason. it doesn't give one person an advantage
     
  12. revad3

    revad3 Blue Belt

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    i find 50/50 guard is only useful when ure at the brown belt and above where all kinds of legs attacks in bjj are legal in competition.
     

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