I'm a big fan of PFL - and I think that 2021 is going to be sink or swim for them

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Fabricio Werdum
Rory MacDonald
Anthony Pettis

Popularity-wise, these 3 are way higher than any fighters PFL has ever hired for their tourneys. So this is clearly a step forward for them, and an opportunity to hire even bigger names and more top fighters in the future.

But only under one condition.
If they win the tourney.


All 3 of these guys are not bad earners at all, and the only way PFL is profitable to them, is if they get this 1 Mil in the end of the road.
If they don't....expect none of them to try again in 2022, and other names would simply consider it not worth a risk.
 
I don’t think any of those guys are getting the million. Well the problem with mma is that nobody really cares about mma. Nobody really cares even about the UFC unless you’re at the top of the division fighting on PPVs and have a name. There’s just no market for PFL.
 
I don’t think their product has improve on anything to be honest… 1 Mil price is 2 high for a show like theirs and not making any profits. That 155 female division sucks … they should have kept the middleweights
 
I don’t think any of those guys are getting the million. Well the problem with mma is that nobody really cares about mma. Nobody really cares even about the UFC unless you’re at the top of the division fighting on PPVs and have a name. There’s just no market for PFL.
It's true. We're the exceptions, not the rule. I really like PFL a lot and think it's format could have legs but I'm coming to terms with the reality that there's just not much market for non UFC MMA.

I hope to be proven wrong. There are several promotions that could pop at some point but I have less and less confidence as time goes on. People just don't care that the UFC has a monopsony on MMA which suppresses fighter rights and compensation. Or if they do they don't care enough to bolster other promotions by paying attention to them. Even most people who consider themselves big fans are as much into following the UFC circus then an actual combat sport.
 
I don’t think their product has improve on anything to be honest… 1 Mil price is 2 high for a show like theirs and not making any profits. That 155 female division sucks … they should have kept the middleweights
The only reason we think 1 million is too much for 5 fights is because the baseline pay in MMA is so bad. I don't at all buy that they can't be sustainable giving 6 million dollar checks away at the end of the season.

They just need to gain a little bit of market share, which is proving to be very hard.
 
I wish the best for the PFL, but i doubt they survive much longer, at least in this format (hell, in surprised that they survived that long). Giving a million to every division winner, regardless of their respective popularity and quality doesnt seems like a good business practice
 
It's true. We're the exceptions, not the rule. I really like PFL a lot and think it's format could have legs but I'm coming to terms with the reality that there's just not much market for non UFC MMA.

You are either the UFC or you're not at this point. The last PFL card drew 62k average viewers. Even though the event before that had a lot of card shuffling due to injuries, ESPN heavily promoted Shields and that card only had 101k. It's a shame.
 
You are either the UFC or you're not at this point. The last PFL card drew 62k average viewers. Even though the event before that had a lot of card shuffling due to injuries, ESPN heavily promoted Shields and that card only had 101k. It's a shame.
It's interesting because I really don't think it's that way in terms of talent. I think it's just easier to follow the UFC and nothing else so that's what a majority of MMA fans do. I think Bellator is sustainable because they're owned by Viacom who have an ever pressing need to produce content. That said if they wanted to get to the next level they need Viacom to get aggressive when I don't get the feeling they're interested in that right now. They may think it's a high cost battle with a real chance of failure and they're probably right. PFL though? They don't have that behind them. ESPN could drop them with numbers like that and if they do they're in trouble.
 
I don’t think any of those guys are getting the million. Well the problem with mma is that nobody really cares about mma. Nobody really cares even about the UFC unless you’re at the top of the division fighting on PPVs and have a name. There’s just no market for PFL.
MMA is always gonna be a niche sport. Let's just admit it guys, fighting sports are always gonna be niche. The best we can hope for is that they reach the levels off boxing in terms off popularity, but most people view fighting as either primitive, gross, or just vulgar.
 
It's true. We're the exceptions, not the rule. I really like PFL a lot and think it's format could have legs but I'm coming to terms with the reality that there's just not much market for non UFC MMA.

I hope to be proven wrong. There are several promotions that could pop at some point but I have less and less confidence as time goes on. People just don't care that the UFC has a monopsony on MMA which suppresses fighter rights and compensation. Or if they do they don't care enough to bolster other promotions by paying attention to them. Even most people who consider themselves big fans are as much into following the UFC circus then an actual combat sport.
I dunno, I thought things were looking pretty grim about a decade + or so. There was a time when WEC and Strikeforce was folding and Dream just vanished. It would never occur to me that in 2021 there would be promotions like current Bellator, OneFC, PFL or that regional promotions like KSW would not only still be around but well healthy (unless something changed recently).

But yeah, I don't really foresee any other promotion really breaking into the mainstream, though it's always possible we get a NBA vs ABA or WCW vs WWE type of thing (I suppose MMA's equivalent was Pride vs UFC but their markets were too different to be direct competitors). Perhaps a sizeable enough niche to stay float is the best they can do, but that's not bad - still more MMA for MMA fans and hopefully more places to get paid.

As for the PFL....I am surprised they're still around. I'm not really sure how their business model works. Is the fact that they've been around this long mean that they are doing fine or is the promotion bleeding money? If anyone knows feel free to share.
 
My coach fought in the last PFL tournament (lost). He's a guy who trains with and corners UFC fighters and has done well in smaller promotions. The skill gap between him and younger fighters at our gym is massive. But he never made it to the big show and now with age and injuries, he's a step below UFC level IMO. I have no idea what his contracts look like, but when he got the PFL fight, he said something to the effect of, "Is $10K worth risking brain damage when I have a gym to run?" Of course the carrot was the $1 million but in all fairness, $10K show + $10K win is what a Bellator or UFC undercard would have paid him as he's not a big name.

But bigger names get paid. Kayla made $125K for her 2019 semi-final fight and she's been on a new contract since. I suspect Werdum, Pettis and Rory are getting market per fight even without winning the tournament. Fighters also get a bonus for advancing to successive rounds.

I'm glad PFL is there as an avenue for fighters to get paid. They can win $1 million on top of regular pay while (let's face it) fighting weaker opposition than they would in the UFC. And they don't need to have BS Instagram feuds to get a payday. All they have to do is fight.

But as a business, I can't see it being sustainable. PFL has distribution deals with networks around the world but I don't see how revenues could be covering their costs, including production and of course fighter pay. Now with Pettis and Lance Palmer out of the tournament, they're down two recognizable names. In all likelihood, they're heading into another final where they'll be awarding $6 million to fighters even most hardcores have never heard of.
 
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Here's their sorry excuse for LW playoffs. You tell me if you think any of them are worth a million dollars, or if it's gonna bring viewers.

Screenshot 2021-06-28 at 12-43-24 PFL 7.jpg
 
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Here's their sorry excuse for LW playoffs. You tell me if you think any of them are worth a million dollars, or if it's gonna bring viewers.

View attachment 863927
Still waiting for an explanation how Martinez is in the playoffs over Natan Schulte. Wouldn't you want your two time LW champ in the playoffs over a unknown newcomer like Martinez who literally lost to Schulte in his last bout!
 
In terms of entertainment they have good fights but the level of competition is subpar, tbh. HW, WW, and FW have interesting play offs, although none of those fighters have a big following or would be able to carry the promotion. The other problem is that it carries 0 prestige to be the PFL semi-finalist or even the tournament winner.
 
Here's their sorry excuse for LW playoffs. You tell me if you think any of them are worth a million dollars, or if it's gonna bring viewers.

View attachment 863927
Collard vs Manfio has 0 appeal, tbh, but I will watch. LHW, LW, and WLW are a disaster. LHW has Cara de Zapato, Mutante, and Sordi in the play offs, enough said. WLW will be Harrison beating on some poor females to get another cool milli.

Again, HW, WW, and FW are pretty intersting, though.
 
Still waiting for an explanation how Martinez is in the playoffs over Natan Schulte. Wouldn't you want your two time LW champ in the playoffs over a unknown newcomer like Martinez who literally lost to Schulte in his last bout!
To be fair... Martinez/Schulte was an amazing fight, and both of those guys are amazing prospects.

https://www.pflmma.com/standings

I can't figure out any of their shit. Why did Martinez advance when he had the same number of points as three other guys? Why did Sordi advance over Hendricks? Why is Ray Cooper listed as 1-1 when he won both of his fights?

PFL puts on some great fights, and they arguably have the best commentary. But their format is terrible.
 
Their Light Heavyweight playoffs are a joke. Cory Hendricks would probably beat them all and he's not even in them and Cezar Ferreira got humiliated by Chris Camozzi who also didn't make the playoffs. It doesn't feel like the PFL Light Heavyweight playoffs are truly representing some of the best fighters in the sport to me and I wouldn't be surprised if most other people felt the same way.
 
Their Light Heavyweight playoffs are a joke. Cory Hendricks would probably beat them all and he's not even in them and Cezar Ferreira got humiliated by Chris Camozzi who also didn't make the playoffs. It doesn't feel like the PFL Light Heavyweight playoffs are truly representing some of the best fighters in the sport to me and I wouldn't be surprised if most other people felt the same way.
PFL's past winners of the 205lb division are Sean O'connell and Emiliano Sordi. That division has always been a joke.
 
Still waiting for an explanation how Martinez is in the playoffs over Natan Schulte. Wouldn't you want your two time LW champ in the playoffs over a unknown newcomer like Martinez who literally lost to Schulte in his last bout!

I think the only possible explanation for that is Martinez has that split decision win over #1 seed Loik, but that's still not a good enough reason and no one cares to see the rematch in the playoffs. Shulte beat Martinez, and Held beat Shulte, but somehow Held is ranked 2 spots below Martinez. WTF.

Manfio has no business in the playoffs, his 6 points came from two split decision "wins" that should have been losses or draws.

I hope they figure out a way to weasel Shulte, OAM, and/or Held onto the playoff cards so one of them might have a chance to advance to the finals. They need to make an executive decision here..."we're changing the rules again" like they did with the 2nd Pettis fight, or that sketchy move they pulled with Palmer.

Palmer had an almost guaranteed path to the playoffs vs Stirn, but for some mysterious reason they cancelled that fight and made him fight Movlid two weeks later.
 
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