Illegal Alien Convict, Accused of Sex Abuse, Bankrupts County with $1M Taxpayer-Funded Medical Bills

[panamaican]

If we had a secure border, he wouldn't have been in the country to commit the crime.

Which wouldn't change the fact that the jail is on the hook for expensive medical bills for all inmates. And while this specific inmate wouldn't be there, that doesn't mean that the next inmate with cancer wouldn't put the county in the exact same predicament.

It's not like only illegal immigrants can have cancer and be felons simultaneously.

It's faulty to fixate on the immigration status of the inmate. Put it another way, if the inmate was a citizen and his cancer treatment was bankrupting the county, would that make this an acceptable outcome?

 

[waiguoren]

Which wouldn't change the fact that the jail is on the hook for expensive medical bills for all inmates. And while this specific inmate wouldn't be there, that doesn't mean that the next inmate with cancer wouldn't put the county in the exact same predicament.

It's not like only illegal immigrants can have cancer and be felons simultaneously.

It's faulty to fixate on the immigration status of the inmate. Put it another way, if the inmate was a citizen and his cancer treatment was bankrupting the county, would that make this an acceptable outcome?

Of course we have our own problems. That's a different subject.

You're missing the point:

If this guy hadn't snuck into the country, our taxpayers wouldn't be dealing with the massive costs he brought with him. He would be Mexico's problem to deal with. This and many thousands of cases like it illustrate the costs brought to us by illegal immigration.

 

[waiguoren]

We are still going to have a big problem of people over staying their visas, which to my understanding make up most of the illegal immigrants in the United States. So why isn't that issue as important as the wall?

Not most, but a plurality. Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/14/illegal-immigrants-who-overstay-visas-almost-never/

It's definitely an issue we have to figure out how to deal with, but at least the visa overstayers have been somewhat vetted. Those crossing the border illegally aren't vetted at all.

 

[panamaican]

Of course we have our own problems. That's a different subject.

You're missing the point:

If this guy hadn't snuck into the country, our taxpayers wouldn't be dealing with the massive costs he brought with him. He would be Mexico's problem to deal with. This and many thousands of cases like it illustrate the costs brought to us by illegal immigration.

I'm not missing the point. I'm calling the "point" fallacious and misleading. The individual's immigration status is not the causal factor for the cancer bills. You're a lawyer, I think. This is rudimentary "but for" analysis. Here is how your statements plays out: But for the inmate's status as an illegal immigrant, the county would not be paying these bills. Well, it fails that basic question. If you change illegal immigrant to legal immigrant or citizen, the county would still be paying the same bills.

The actual "but for" goes like this: "But for the illegal immigrant's status as a felon, the county would not be paying these bills." If you change felon to non-felon, the county would no longer be paying the bills. It is the status as a felon, not the status as an illegal immigrant, that is bankrupting the county.

Now, someone without a lot of common sense might say "Yeah but he's illegal and that matters." However they wouldn't be able to point to anything specifically tied to the immigration status that created the felony issue. The crime in question isn't an immigration crime but a crime for which citizens can also be convicted. The illegal immigrant isn't the only person in the county convicted of felonies. The illegal immigrant isn't the only person in the county with cancer. Nowhere in an intelligent analysis of this subject does the legality of the individual's immigration status impact the county's duty to pay cancer treatment bills for felons.

I think you once said that you use these opportunities to practice your skills. I do the same. You shouldn't need me to point out the basic "but for" flaws with your position.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Stupid story.

What is the alternative here?

Let him die of cancer while incarcerated?

For every 2nd amendment supporter here, imagine every slippery slope argument you have ever made, and apply it to letting people die of disease in prison. What could go wrong? AKA here is your sign.

You want to just deport a sex offender of children back into the wilds of Mexico?

What exactly is the solution here for anyone that is outraged by this?

 

[waiguoren]

This is rudimentary "but for" analysis. Here is how your statements plays out: But for the inmate's status as an illegal immigrant, the county would not be paying these bills. Well, it fails that basic question. If you change illegal immigrant to legal immigrant or citizen, the county would still be paying the same bills.

You're ascribing to me a statement that I never made. My statement follows this sentence; notice the discrepancy with the statement you ascribed to me.

But for Valerio-Romero's presence in the country, US taxpayers would not be funding his medical treatment.

Adding the assumption that Valerio-Romero entered the US illegally, we have a corollary:

If the US had a secure border, US taxpayers would not be funding Valerio-Romero's medical treatment.


The implicit comparison I am making is to a nation with the same level of legal immigration but without illegal border crossings. Your argument that US taxpayers would still have to pay for Valerio-Romero's medical treatment in the event that he were a legal immigrant is not relevant.

 

[waiguoren]

Stupid story.

What is the alternative here?

Let him die of cancer while incarcerated?

For every 2nd amendment supporter here, imagine every slippery slope argument you have ever made, and apply it to letting people die of disease in prison. What could go wrong? AKA here is your sign.

You want to just deport a sex offender of children back into the wilds of Mexico?

What exactly is the solution here for anyone that is outraged by this?

You're missing the point. If the southern border were secure, Valerio-Romero most likely wouldn't be in the US in the first place. Mexico would handle his medical treatment, not the US taxpayer.

 

[VivaRevolution]

You're missing the point. If the southern border were secure, Valerio-Romero most likely wouldn't be in the US in the first place. Mexico would handle his medical treatment, not the US taxpayer.

Half of all illegals come here legally.

How are you going to stop legal behavoir.

Build your wall, and watch all the travel visas, and work visas that are overstayed, become the source where all illegal immigration comes from. Won't solve the problem.

Member, the 9-11 hi-jackers were legal immigrants.

 

[Seano]

Half of all illegals come here legally.

How are you going to stop legal behavoir.

Build your wall, and watch all the travel visas, and work visas that are overstayed, and become where all illegal immigration comes from. Won't solve the problem.

Member, the 9-11 hi-jackers were legal immigrants.

All of all illegals are here illegally.

Amnesty was floated for the "Dreamers" who are already here.

 

[waiguoren]

Half of all illegals come here legally.

More like 40%, but who's counting?

Visa overstayers are a different group compared to illegal border crossers. Which group would you expect to have a higher crime rate? Also, many of the visa overstayers only stay in the US illegally for a short while. Illegal border crossers are in it for the long-run.

Build your wall, and watch all the travel visas, and work visas that are overstayed, and become where all illegal immigration comes from.

Sure, that's another issue that needs to be dealt with. 75% of students from Eritrea overstayed their student visas in 2016. Maybe we should stop giving student visas to people from Eritrea.

 

[VivaRevolution]

All of all illegals are here illegally.

Amnesty was floated for the "Dreamers" who are already here.

Half of all illegals came here legally, which means that unless a wall stops people from flying in on a commercial airplane legally, it doesn't solve the problem.

I have been saying this same thing, in every illegal thread since this account has existed.

E-VERIFY with massive, I will cripple your business, fines, is how you stop illegal immigration.

 

[VivaRevolution]

More like 40%, but who's counting?

Also, visa overstayers are a different group compared to illegal border crossers. Which group would you expect to have a higher crime rate?



Sure, that's another issue that needs to be dealt with. 75% of students from Eritrea overstayed their student visas in 2016. Maybe we should stop giving student visas to people from Eritrea.

You know what really effects crime rates? Men.

Unless dudes want to start passing laws to address the FACT that we are the violent criminals, I'm not really interested in hearing about which group is responsible for which crimes.

As far as overstayed visas, you know how you stop that for everyone who isn't rich? Take away the jobs they need to live here.

Let's be real, you don't really care if one of the five Eritrean millionaires overstays their visa do you?

Also, let's see what the % of new illegals were that overstayed visas in 2017, or are the reports of boarder crossings being down fake news?

 

[panamaican]

You're ascribing to me a statement that I never made. My statement follows this sentence; notice the discrepancy with the statement you ascribed to me.

But for Valerio-Romero's presence in the country, US taxpayers would not be funding his medical treatment.

Adding the assumption that Valerio-Romero entered the US illegally, we have a corollary:

If the US had a secure border, US taxpayers would not be funding Valerio-Romero's medical treatment.


The implicit comparison I am making is to a nation with the same level of legal immigration but without illegal border crossings. Your argument that US taxpayers would still have to pay for Valerio-Romero's medical treatment in the event that he were a legal immigrant is not relevant.

Your statement here is worse than the one I ascribed to you. Valerio-Romero's presence in the country is not why his medical treatment is being paid for. His medical treatment is being paid for because he's a felon. Your statement skips quite a few steps when the "but for" analysis requires proximal causation. No one had to pay this individuals medical bills just because he was in the country. They had to pay his medical bills because he's a convicted felon within a county jail.

As a legal argument, it doesn't become stronger by skipping steps.

To help explain causation: Valerio-Romero is here illegally. Do U.S. taxpayers start paying his medical treatment as soon as his status becomes that of "illegal immigrant"? Or does something else have to happen first, something like committing a crime and being convicted for it?

 

[ShadowRun]

Only if we abolish ICE like some
Of the dems want this wouldn’t be a story

 

[Seano]

Half of all illegals came here legally, which means that unless a wall stops people from flying in on a commercial airplane legally, it doesn't solve the problem.

I have been saying this same thing, in every illegal thread since this account has existed.

E-VERIFY with massive, I will cripple your business, fines, is how you stop illegal immigration.

I agree that its a part of the equation. I'm for improving border security too.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Only if we abolish ICE like some
Of the dems want this wouldn’t be a story

I support abolishing ICE, DHS, and the NSA, but that is because I am actually against the deep state, and not just using them as a boogey man.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I agree that its a part of the equation. I'm for improving border security too.

That's cool, but I don't think we will need more security if they are securing a leak, and not trying to stop a flood.

 

[Michaelangelo]

should leave him outside without sunscreen

 

[waiguoren]

Unless dudes want to start passing laws to address the FACT that we are the violent criminals, I'm not really interested in hearing about which group is responsible for which crimes.

Then you shouldn't have any say in law enforcement decisions. Law enforcement is well aware that almost all violent crimes are committed by men. That's why they profile men instead of women. If you have two groups of illegal aliens (those who entered illegally and those who overstayed a visa), it makes sense to first target the one with the higher crime rate. As I already said, we should address both groups.

As far as overstayed visas, you know how you stop that for everyone who isn't rich? Take away the jobs they need to live here.

Interesting to see you on board with President Trump's proposal to make e-verify mandatory for all employers.

Let's be real, you don't really care if one of the five Eritrean millionaires overstays their visa do you?

Not sure why you would say that. I would prefer that he not overstay his visa.

Also, let's see what the % of new illegals were that overstayed visas in 2017, or are the reports of boarder crossings being down fake news?

The % you're looking for is incalcuable.There are no data on illegal border crossings, obviously. 2017 apprehensions were substantially down, but they've shot up again this year.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Then you shouldn't have any say in law enforcement decisions. Law enforcement is well aware that almost all violent crimes are committed by men. That's why they profile men instead of women. If you have two groups of illegal aliens (those who entered illegally and those who overstayed a visa), it makes sense to first target the one with the higher crime rate. As I already said, we should address both groups.




Interesting to see you on board with President Trump's proposal to make e-verify mandatory for all employers.



Not sure why you would say that. I would prefer that he not overstay his visa.


The % you're looking for is incalcuable.There are no data on illegal border crossings, obviously. 2017 apprehensions were substantially down, but they've shot up again this year.

You know why illegal immigration is up again, and why it was so far down in 08 when Obama was president?

Because they come here for jobs.

It has always been the chamber of commerce stopping E-verify.

If Trump passes E-verify I will stop shitting on him every chance I get, even if he is a Israeli firster.

Edit: Hell, I'll go even further. If Trump passes E-verify, and doesn't go to war in his term, he would be a better president then Obama.