Ilia vs Charles / JDM vs Islam BETTER Than Islam vs Topuria

[benebox]

Islam / Topuria was the p4p #1 fighting the p4p #2 so yeah it was as elite a fight as you can get. However I agree, I just feel more excited about these match ups. Maybe because we already had Islam fight Volk or maybe due to knowing Olivera will go to war.

 

[Kaiokenrye24]

Every Ilia fight has been and will be a banger

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Arman, Gathje, Paddy, Hooker, Charles are all deserving of being up for a vacant title.

They all have something in common:

Arman shit the bed by fucking up his weight cut so bad he had to lie about a back injury. Needs to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

Gaethje is 1-1 in his last 2 with a decision against a year-long post ACL Fiziev (which he could've easily lost) and got body-bagged by Max moving up from FW. Should need to beat a top contender to deserve title shot.

Paddy is on a great streak but has one top 10 win against a very washed Chandler (as great as he looked, Chandler looked terrible). Needs to beat a top contender to deserve a title shot.

Hooker was lucky to get a split vs. Gamrot in a life and death fight and broke his hand so bad it needed multiple surgeries (is going to be out for a while). Needs to recover from his injury and beat a top contender to deserve a title shot.

Oliviera is arguably the most deserving and he's still 2-2 in his last 4, with wins against declined Dariush and decisioning an almost-washed Chandler. Should need to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

Topuria completely unproven at LW (almost got KO'd by a journeyman-style kickboxer in Herbert in his one move up). Should need to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

There shouldn't even be a LW title fight yet, we'd all be fine with two 5-round top contender fights (i.e. Charles vs. Arman + Illia vs. Gaethje, winners fight for the vacant title), but for marketing purposes/to keep the division moving this is what they always do (it's how we got Chandler vs. Charles when Khabib bounced).

The most deserving is Arman, but he can't be trusted with the weight-cut fiasco. The next most deserving is Charles, because his only recent losses are to Arman (split) and the former champ Islam. And the UFC can't risk Topuria losing to a contender after vacating the belt to move up a weight-class, so they kind of have their hand forced to give him the title fight.

Charles vs. Topuria makes the most sense by far out of what options they have on the table.

 

[humdizzle]

ilia vs islam would have been one of the highest level mma fights that could have been done

that said... islam should not have to fight another 145 midget (this would have been the narrative if he won).

he deserves his own shot at greatness.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

They all have something in common:

Arman shit the bed by fucking up his weight cut so bad he had to lie about a back injury. Needs to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

Gaethje is 1-1 in his last 2 with a decision against a year-long post ACL Fiziev (which he could've easily lost) and got body-bagged by Max moving up from FW. Should need to beat a top contender to deserve title shot.

Paddy is on a great streak but has one top 10 win against a very washed Chandler (as great as he looked, Chandler looked terrible). Needs to beat a top contender to deserve a title shot.

Hooker was lucky to get a split vs. Gamrot in a life and death fight and broke his hand so bad it needed multiple surgeries (is going to be out for a while). Needs to recover from his injury and beat a top contender to deserve a title shot.

Oliviera is arguably the most deserving and he's still 2-2 in his last 4, with wins against declined Dariush and decisioning an almost-washed Chandler. Should need to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

Topuria completely unproven at LW (almost got KO'd by a journeyman-style kickboxer in Herbert in his one move up). Should need to beat a top contender to get another title shot.

There shouldn't even be a LW title fight yet, we'd all be fine with two 5-round top contender fights (i.e. Charles vs. Arman + Illia vs. Gaethje, winners fight for the vacant title), but for marketing purposes/to keep the division moving this is what they always do (it's how we got Chandler vs. Charles when Khabib bounced).

The most deserving is Arman, but he can't be trusted with the weight-cut fiasco. The next most deserving is Charles, because his only recent losses are to Arman (split) and the former champ Islam. And the UFC can't risk Topuria losing to a contender after vacating the belt to move up a weight-class, so they kind of have their hand forced to give him the title fight.

Charles vs. Topuria makes the most sense by far out of what options they have on the table.

No it doesn't make the most sense. A tournament makes the most sense. You posted a variety of ways each needs to "Prove" they deserve a title shot. That's exactly what the tournament would do.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

No it doesn't make the most sense. A tournament makes the most sense. You posted a variety of ways each needs to "Prove" they deserve a title shot. That's exactly what the tournament would do.

Did you even read my post?

"There shouldn't even be a LW title fight yet, we'd all be fine with two 5-round top contender fights (i.e. Charles vs. Arman + Illia vs. Gaethje, winners fight for the vacant title), but for marketing purposes/to keep the division moving this is what they always do (it's how we got Chandler vs. Charles when Khabib bounced)."

I basically agreed with you entirely, I just pointed out that the UFC isn't going to forgo losing a title fight because it's the right/logical thing to do. Title fights are essentially worth tens of millions of dollars, so they are always going to make one instead of a tournament.

And looking at it through that lens what fight makes the most sense? To me it's clearly Charles vs. Topuria, but if you've got another opinion I'd be glad to hear it and the reasoning behind it. But we need to live in the reality where the UFC is going to always do what makes the most sense for their bottom line, not for the sport/the fans/whatever.

 

[jk7707]

Losing out on a chance to see two top P4P fighters go at it in their primes is an automatic loss of an opportunity. There's no way around it.

 

[JustBreed]

We get two really good fights instead of one massive fight.

Whether people like that or not is a matter of individual preference and perspective.

 

[Tohm]

The thing with Charles x Topuria is that it seems to be a fight with a clear favorite guy to win.

It's hard to imagine Topuria losing here against a very hittable Charles and given how precise Topuria is with his striking. As I've said before in another topic and I will say it again: I will be surprised if Topuria doesn't knock Charles out in the 1st round.

JDM beating Belal did shake things up in the WW division and probably made it more exciting, but then we're not going to have Topuria x Islam, which I think was a big fight. As someone said here before: it was as elite a fight as you can get, but now we have Topuria against... Charles.

 

[cmw43]

I don't think we'll even get a possibility to see Islam fight Illia unless he loses/and Illia wins. I have a feeling Islam will retire if he beats JDM. If he loses maybe he goes back down to LW to see if he can re-capture the title. If Illia loses to Charles he's not next in line for a tittle shot at LW, he'll need a win and there be other dudes in line already.

And Islam going back down is a big "maybe" - the bulk up to 170 is real and he might not be able to make that cut again after moving up, most guys never go back down once they move up and if they do they look like shit (i.e. Dan Hooker).

So it might just be a fight that is lost to us forever.

I do agree Islam probably retires if he wins.

I don't think he needs to bulk up much, he's basically the same size as Belal already, it'll just be an easier cut.

 

[JakePaulMMA]

You have no idea how badly I want to see Charles get a running kick right to Ilia's lil' noizshe off 'emmm

(like how Aldo kicked the shit out of that one dudes head last weekend)

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

Disagree but I'm happy for people excited for these two fights. They are very mid title fights. Ilia vs Islam was the goods

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I'll laugh my ass off if Topuria loses to Oliveira. Sure, he's the favorite, but anything can happen.

Arman needs to get off his ass and take his punishment fight, so he can fight the Topuria/Oliveira winner. I have a feeling Islam is never coming back to lightweight.

Will you also laugh when Islam gets KTFO by Jack?

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Champs vacating is bad in general. Just makes people think 'oh he's only a champ because that dude left the division'. So unfair to the new champs.

 

[Chagaev]

Islam vs JDM will be interesting because Jack already had a full camp training to keep it on the feet. But I wanted to see Islam vs Top, honestly.

 

[markys00]

Not better. What a joke

 

[Adamant]

Maybe IIia will win the belt at LW and Islam at WW and then they can fight as Champion vs Champion.

 

[blunttruth]

Better not at all. Iila vs topuria is the 2nd best match in the ufc period. Topuria is going to ko Charles with little pr

Better not at all. Iila vs topuria is the 2nd best match in the ufc period. Topuria is going to ko Charles with little problem

I personally would love to see Ilia vs Topuria, but not sure which would be the favorite?

 

[HatKick]

Gotta disagree. Ilia vs Islam would be the highest level MMA fight in years. We're missing out on a historic matchup between two all time greats. It's like if Jones vs DC never happened.

The two fights we're getting instead will probably be good but they don't feel as big or high level.

 

[Lee Danger]

Ilia is the absolute favorite in the Olives' fight and i don't expect other than him mauling Charles.

On the other side since the best win of Islam was his second stint against Volk it made more sense that the one who dispatched Volk not on short notice and not being one division bigger'd be the perfect candidate for him.

The one matchup that makes less sense to me is the JDM-Islam's one: on top of the nonsensical claim that Islam is the best lw ever i have the strong feeling that whatever the plan is it'll backfire spectaculary.