If you hate Danaher for his teaching style.. you have to Hate Hall

[yetanother]

Since a wide range of people buy video instructionals, that can mean including a LOT of info.

Well Danaher includes little info because he is trying to be as verbose as possible because he is emulating philosophy bullshit.
Long Rafa or Caio Terra information rich videos are super good.

 

[mataleaos]

But Danaher never competed.

This is a big difference for me. I don't dislike either of their teaching styles, but Ryan has competed gi, no-gi, and MMA. Now you can say that he hasn't won Worlds or ADCC or anything like that but he competed and he trains hard every single day now.

There's something about watching instructors that have never competed that makes what they're showing seemed more divorced from reality to me. I don't expect anyone to be a world beater and I like Danaher's teaching for the most part, and I know he has some physical disabilities.

But Ryan at least mentions real world match examples or sparring examples, and if he's teaching something he doesn't himself use that much he will point you to a high level competitor that does so you can watch it in action.

I don't know if it's just my impression, but I feel like there is a strange aura around Ryan Hall in some part of the jiu jitsu community, like he's some kind of grappling saint that can never say, or do something wrong. While I honestly like him and his instructionals, I find it silly.

It is a bit silly. I think the reason is that Ryan's DVDs came out before the youtube explosion and open-source era of BJJ channels all over youtube and instructional websites everywhere. A lot of people that are brown and black belts were white and blue belts when his DVDs came out, and his stuff helped a lot of us out and introduced us to the conceptual approach to begin with. Finally he has a very "hey buddy" kind of way of teaching and he mentions that he makes a lot of mistakes often. He comes off more relatable and I think that endeared him to many people.

 

[mataleaos]

A big difference between the 2 that I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet between the 2 is that there is barely any presence of Hall online. Try to find videos of Hall rolling since 2012 or so or teaching anything online that's not from his DVD sets. You won't find anything. And check Hall's social media. He barely posts anything and when he does it's a Farside comic strip or maybe a pict of him post-training.

John Danaher makes vlong posts every single day about systems and sub-systems, essays, theories, and a lot of them are either him kicking down open doors or being self-congratulatory.

Danaher is putting lots of thought and information out every single day all over social media and Hall is a much more private person. Hall contributed what he had to contribute and now he's doing his own thing quietly. If you want info from Hall you basically have to visit his academy. He also doesn't even do private lessons. So you have to either take a class he is teaching or catch him at an open mat.

Anyone that you see less of is generally more appealing than someone you see and hear from every single day.

I would hate to attend a class or seminar taught the way either Hall or Danaher do their video instruction, but it's the ideal for the medium.

And for what it's worth I have never taken a class from John but Ryan's classes are not taught as verbose as the lessons in his DVDs.

 

[esteven]

And for what it's worth I have never taken a class from John but Ryan's classes are not taught as verbose as the lessons in his DVDs.

Oh, I would expect not.

 

[jack36767]

See like I said he’s not above criticism. I just think people go overboard with it

 

[mataleaos]

See like I said he’s not above criticism. I just think people go overboard with it

With their criticism of Danaher?

I think it's just a natural push back to this notion that basically everything that goes well for Danaher's guys is because he planned it and everything that doesn't is because of something else. It seems like anytime one of his guys lose there's an excuse for it, and everytime they win it's because he had a master plan for it to happen. I really noticed this on his BJJ Hacks video when he mentions the parts about GSP, Weidman, Tonon, and Cummings. And finally just this sense that he created so many things (like the darce choke and the trapping the arm to get the rear naked choke.)

I like his instructionals and I massively respect what he brings to the game both as an instructor as well as what he's done as a coach for his team. He just seems to relish his time in the spotlight in a way that I think Ryan Hall does not. And this post may make it seem like I don't like Danaher but I do. I find him grating sometimes but I have a lot of respect for him.

 

[selfcritical]

This is a big difference for me. I don't dislike either of their teaching styles, but Ryan has competed gi, no-gi, and MMA. Now you can say that he hasn't won Worlds or ADCC or anything like that but he competed and he trains hard every single day now.

There's something about watching instructors that have never competed that makes what they're showing seemed more divorced from reality to me. I don't expect anyone to be a world beater and I like Danaher's teaching for the most part, and I know he has some physical disabilities.

But Ryan at least mentions real world match examples or sparring examples, and if he's teaching something he doesn't himself use that much he will point you to a high level competitor that does so you can watch it in action.

I mean.....coaching competitive athletes is pretty much attached to reality, and he seems (like most competition oriented coaches i've known) to have a pretty extensive memory of almost every match one of his athletes has been in. Danaher also frequently mentions athletes who are very good at a particular thing he is mentioning.

TLR I don't think the difference you're talking about in delivery styles actually exists.

 

[Forceof1]

I think the difference is that Ryan doesn't take himself / subject to seriously. Would Danaher ever use the term "squeezing your balls off" or any of the fun tangents Ryan sprinkles in?

I get the general similarities (both speak a lot, focus on concepts, etc) but I don't equate them as equals. I enjoy both, for different reasons.

I enjoy Hall's DVD's more, because of the time in my life I studied them the most, I feel he is more approachable, funnier, less condescending and I get a perverse enjoyment out of him asking Seph to do stuff that he knows he obviously can't, and Seph playing along every time.

 

[Judge]

I don't know if it's just my impression, but I feel like there is a strange aura around Ryan Hall in some part of the jiu jitsu community, like he's some kind of grappling saint that can never say, or do something wrong. While I honestly like him and his instructionals, I find it silly.

By the way, the only place I've ever seen bashing Danaher hard with a kind of majority, is Reddit (insert random "Danaher is a serial killer" joke that pretends to be funny).. I think that's enough said. Like or not his persona, he puts out solid knowledge and regularly produce great grapplers.. end of story, one can of course like more or less their teaching style, but they are objectively both great instructors.

So it is not Hall you have an issue with but his fanboys. Got it.

But Danaher never competed.

But his students do and fuck shit the fuck up. GSP seeks out Danaher to train him. Almost like he knows what he is doing and his students wreck shit at top level.

 

[listrahtes]

So it is not Hall you have an issue with but his fanboys. Got it.



But his students do and fuck shit the fuck up. GSP seeks out Danaher to train him. Almost like he knows what he is doing and his students wreck shit at top level.

I dont think its about qualification in technical skill. I encountered many coaches over the years and interesting enough you could always tell very fast who had competed and who didnt. It`s about how they carry themselves.

Many know everything and need everyone else to acknowledge that all the time. A constant need of vallidation how good they are is why they often make things seem much more complex than they are with a lot of fancy words. Also student - coach relation is often more problematic and complicated.

I dont want to offer a simple solution but one origin of that is simply that they lack inner balance. Its just there are things in life you simply have to do to really get the whole point FOR YOURSELF. Like f.e. having a girlfriend, a job .... and in martial arts to have a fight. You can have a 0-3 record or like early Gracies some beach fight and thats fine but without it somethings lacking and its this interaction with reality that I respect so much about BJJ

If Danaher is that person I dont know but imo there definitely is a pattern with people who havent competed / fought and coach and I for one prefer a coach who has.

 

[vcmmafan]

The difference is I enjoy Hall’s teaching and dislike Danaher’s speech. Hall just leaves a better impression on me.

 

[machomang]

So?

Sorry, just mocking yetanother

 

[Solidus Snake]

So it is not Hall you have an issue with but his fanboys. Got it.

I don't have any issue with Hall. I clearly wrote in my post that I both like his persona and his instructionals.. this whole discussion started inquiring general people's perception about the two of them (Danaher and him compared).. I just gave my opinion about that. So of course, it's fanboys who are silly.

 

[yetanother]

You can have a 0-3 record or like early Gracies some beach fight and thats fine but without it somethings lacking and its this interaction with reality that I respect so much about BJJ

Dunno, the people with negative or super bad MMA (not counting the 0-1 adventure gone wrong) records I have met have usually a terribly twisted perception of what jiu jitsu is or how training should look like which makes them sucks so bad that they get such shitty records.

 

[mataleaos]

 

[esteven]

Reading that was the best part of my week, and I've been having a good week.

 

[jack36767]

I will note GSP on multiple occasions attributes a lot of his success to Danaher. But what does GSP know bout trainings and fighting’s and tings

 

[listrahtes]

Dunno, the people with negative or super bad MMA (not counting the 0-1 adventure gone wrong) records I have met have usually a terribly twisted perception of what jiu jitsu is or how training should look like which makes them sucks so bad that they get such shitty records.

I think you misunderstood me. Sure you need a good understanding of what you are teaching. I was just talking about how a coach carrys himself different as someone who never competed. But sure not everyone its a tendency. And for bjj I would say competing in bjj is relevant. The level of skill is annother topic.

So if I could choose between a high profile coach with a track record in competing or not I would always choose the one who competed.

 

[Judoka1532]

What would you say you're hoping to achieve with this thread?

I have no idea what the guy is talking about....

 

[Judoka1532]

So I had had a chance to actually watch more of the Danaher instructional in depth. Whereas before it was just a few times watching different sections..

And you know what.. people are whiny ass blankety blank blank hypocrites.

I said this before but I know for super duper sure now. Every criticism of Danahers style applies to Ryan Hall. Yet you don’t see the same level of hate. In fact people gush over Hall. Hmmm let’s go through some of the criticisms that apply to both.

1. Overly verbose - check
2. Wastes a obnoxious amount of time explaining engineering shit instead of teaching - check
3. Overly philosophical and using fancy terms - check
4. Could cut out at LEAST a third of the time - check
5. Could effectively explain all the concepts way quicker and actually show the techniques in a much more effective Way- check
6. Treats basic positioning stuff as amazing examples of the proof bin is soooo like omg technical - check
7. Weird ass idiosyncrasies the instructor has - check
8. Monotone voice that drones on - check
9. I could go on

So while I do not have a problem with the criticisms in general if they are rational. And I think some of the criticisms of his teaching style are valid. The amount of vitriol and hate and saying he’s “despicable” from some here and on reddit.. I really don’t get.

I like Ryan Hall btw, I’m talking about instructionals. Not him

And you know what, Danaher doesn’t blink constantly

*yes I know Hall can’t control it. Still distracting


And will someone please tell EvenFlow to actually go to a real gym to train, and not just a Gracie Barra McChain gym before suddenly being braggadocio

Danaher is a legend. His style of teaching is what separates him from other trainers. It's important to be in depth and over-explain things. Because most people learn not just by knowing what to do, they need to know what to do, how to do it, and why to do it.