If you had the choice, would you pick Goju-Ryu or Shotokan?

Jukai said:
We did, although it wasn't exactly a focus because a) rule changes in both the JKA and WKF change the legality of throws all the time and b) because of the distance of Shotokan, we were much more about the foot sweeps and trips. Our dojo specifically practiced those like crazy. Nowadays, throws are a little more common.
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Love the sweeps and trips, too. I'd love to practice those to counter aggressive punchers. Love this one, too. Ashi Barai, I suppose.



Technically that's illegal under Thai rules, but I bet no one would complain if I pulled it off in sparring. Especially since it's an MMA school, not just a Muay Thai gym.
 
Discipulus said:
Love the sweeps and trips, too. I'd love to practice those to counter aggressive punchers. Love this one, too. Ashi Barai, I suppose.



Technically that's illegal under Thai rules, but I bet no one would complain if I pulled it off in sparring. Especially since it's an MMA school, not just a Muay Thai gym.
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Just do it under the guise of 'forgetting the rules.' There was a kickboxer who often came to our dojo who would throw a monster kick to my leg then hug me and say "OMG I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I FORGOT!"
He did it so many times, I was often unsure if he really forgot.

I love Lyoto's sweeps (especially this one) but my favorite sweep, I'm not sure is in Lyoto's DVD. I have long legs so I'd throw a one-two (sometimes more like a hook than a gyaku-zuki just to jam my opponent up) then sweep both the rear leg and the front leg.

This is a good example. Almost a perfect one, actually:
 
Jukai said:
Just do it under the guise of 'forgetting the rules.' There was a kickboxer who often came to our dojo who would throw a monster kick to my leg then hug me and say "OMG I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I FORGOT!"
He did it so many times, I was often unsure if he really forgot.

I love Lyoto's sweeps (especially this one) but my favorite sweep, I'm not sure is in Lyoto's DVD. I have long legs so I'd throw a one-two (sometimes more like a hook than a gyaku-zuki just to jam my opponent up) then sweep both the rear leg and the front leg.

This is a good example. Almost a perfect one, actually:
Click to expand...


Ah, love this one. I was trying to think of how to set it up. Jab cross with a big step just to get them thinking defense, and then the sweep. This one is definitely legal in Muay Thai rules (it's more commonly done off of a caught kick), and it's a big sweep to hit, too. You can get some serious altitude on the guy.

And that Machida sweep is a thing of beauty. His sweeps are one of the best aspects of his game, in my opinion, and not one that people usually talk about.

I've got sparring on Monday. I'm gonna try that double leg sweep. Reports of my success/failure forthcoming!
 
Discipulus said:
Ah, love this one. I was trying to think of how to set it up. Jab cross with a big step just to get them thinking defense, and then the sweep. This one is definitely legal in Muay Thai rules (it's more commonly done off of a caught kick), and it's a big sweep to hit, too. You can get some serious altitude on the guy.

And that Machida sweep is a thing of beauty. His sweeps are one of the best aspects of his game, in my opinion, and not one that people usually talk about.

I've got sparring on Monday. I'm gonna try that double leg sweep. Reports of my success/failure forthcoming!
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Huh, I was under the impression that you could only sweep out the leg AFTER you caught a kick under FTR. Muay Thai is so damn confusing to me :icon_conf

You totally got the right idea, instead of a straight like in the video, throw a punch that hooks their lead arm a bit so it's difficult for them to throw a lead hook of their own, then put them on their ass. Enjoy!
 
Jukai said:
Huh, I was under the impression that you could only sweep out the leg AFTER you caught a kick under FTR. Muay Thai is so damn confusing to me :icon_conf

You totally got the right idea, instead of a straight like in the video, throw a punch that hooks their lead arm a bit so it's difficult for them to throw a lead hook of their own, then put them on their ass. Enjoy!
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See 0:58 in this video for one example of a sweep:



The rules are fairly simple. I believe the distinction is that you can only sweep someone with a round-kicking motion. You can only hit their legs with your shin or instep, not the sole of your foot or the calf/achilles (as in Osoto Gari). I do wonder if the ones in this video would be legal (the hooking ones), because there's a whole lot of aggressive punchers in my gym that it would work great against.

 
Jukai said:
Just do it under the guise of 'forgetting the rules.' There was a kickboxer who often came to our dojo who would throw a monster kick to my leg then hug me and say "OMG I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I FORGOT!"
He did it so many times, I was often unsure if he really forgot.

I love Lyoto's sweeps (especially this one) but my favorite sweep, I'm not sure is in Lyoto's DVD. I have long legs so I'd throw a one-two (sometimes more like a hook than a gyaku-zuki just to jam my opponent up) then sweep both the rear leg and the front leg.

This is a good example. Almost a perfect one, actually:
Click to expand...


Ha, that's my favorite sweep as well! Works like a charm. :icon_chee

This is probably a matter of opinion but I think this version looks more powerful - done by the legendary Enoeda himself. The clip then shows a similar technique used by Machida against Nakamura (a Judoka!).

 
Eric Bradach said:
Interesting. From my understanding Goju-Ryu is closer to the original Okinawa styles of karate with the iron body training and full contact sparring. While Shotokan is more of a water downed Japanese version which is geared towards sport. That being said I would choose Goju-Ryu but I could be completely wrong and I'm not the most knowledgeable person on the subject. However it really comes down to the school as there are a lot of mcdojos out there.
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Most goju today is indistinguishable from shotokan in training and sparring -due to decades of training to fight under basically the same rules (WKF/WUKO). The differences is only in formal technique and kata.
Most goju dojos have never seen body conditioning or hard sparring.

Only a few organizations do irikumi (continuous sparring) and most of them, by a big margin, focus on irikumi ju (soft "skintouch" sparring) instead of irikumi go (hard sparring that allows KO).
 
Hotora86 said:
Ha, that's my favorite sweep as well! Works like a charm. :icon_chee

This is probably a matter of opinion but I think this version looks more powerful - done by the legendary Enoeda himself. The clip then shows a similar technique used by Machida against Nakamura (a Judoka!).

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The difference between that technique and the technique I suggested is distance. The sweep Machida uses in that video is mostly using the arm to push someone over the leg, it's much more controlled. In turn, it's very very close, and you have to set up your rear hand to push through the guy. Against a judoka trying to clinch up with you, that's not terribly difficult. Against a kickboxer who is trying to keep distance by punches and kicks, much more difficult (unless you're Enoeda Sensei, which none of us are). The ashi barai I showed uses a setup that is much farther away (one-two) and is mostly in the legs with the arm applying a small push (and is really just for grabbing an opponents body part to control them). It's better in a kickboxing environment.
 
shinkyoku said:
Most goju today is indistinguishable from shotokan in training and sparring -due to decades of training to fight under basically the same rules (WKF/WUKO). The differences is only in formal technique and kata.
Most goju dojos have never seen body conditioning or hard sparring.

Only a few organizations do irikumi (continuous sparring) and most of them, by a big margin, focus on irikumi ju (soft "skintouch" sparring) instead of irikumi go (hard sparring that allows KO).
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Had no idea. I am disappoint. :(
 
All this talk of Goju-Ryu has me curious. I tried a bit of Kyokushin and really enjoyed it. If the Goju-Ryu my buddy wants to sign up for turns out to be the hard / Okinawan version, I could be convinced to check it out! ;)
 
I take goju.
Only the blue belts and above are allowed to spar in our dojo, they use 8oz gloves and headgear and head punches are allowed.

Mostly what I've learned so far is a combo of 2 things, a lot of time focused on Goju kata and body positioning and a bit of time on punches and kicks, mostly snap kicks and leg kicks but no roundhouse kicks yet (I'm still a white belt).
 
Hotora86 said:
Had no idea. I am disappoint. :(
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Mainstream goju (red) vs mainstream shotokan (blue).
Leaving vid of the absolute top elite guys aside, this is what the vast bulk of goju&shotokan fighters look like in a fight.


Not really much of a difference is it?
The shotokan guy has slightly higher stance, but nothing that is not better explained as personal stance rather than style specific stance.
Stylistically shotokan should have the lower stance.
 
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shinkyoku said:
Mainstream goju (red) vs mainstream shotokan (blue).
Leaving vid of the absolute top elite guys aside, this is what the vast bulk of goju&shotokan fighters look like in a fight.


Not really much of a difference is it?
The shotokan guy has slightly higher stance, but nothing that is not better explained as personal stance rather than style specific stance.
Stylistically shotokan should have the lower stance.
Click to expand...


I actually think there are more traditional Goju-Ryu schools than you believe. Whether you can find them outside of Europe and Japan, I have absolutely no idea, but there are Goju schools that have strayed away from the unification thing.
 
Jukai said:
I actually think there are more traditional Goju-Ryu schools than you believe. Whether you can find them outside of Europe and Japan, I have absolutely no idea, but there are Goju schools that have strayed away from the unification thing.
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I cannot say for Japan, but I am European.
The hard style of Goju are not very common here. WKF style Goju is.
I am not saying that hard style goju, with hard sparring and serious body conditioning does not exist here. It certainly does. But compared to point karate focused dojos, it is tiny.
 
shinkyoku said:
I cannot say for Japan, but I am European.
The hard style of Goju are not very common here. WKF style Goju is.
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That may be true in other parts of Europe, but here in the UK there are alot of hard style Goju-ryu dojo's here & Uechi-ryu, some of them compete in full contact knockdown tournaments as well organised by Kyokushin IFK & some compete in our IKO1 inter-dojo competitions in London.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe though, but I don't think it is as widespread as people think.
 
IOGKF-USA - International Goju-Ryu Karate-do Federation

I think it depends on regions Karate tournament landscape. There is a Goju Ryu dojo that does Hojo Undo and hard body conditioning on the side but competes in WKF tournaments.

Knockdown karate is absent here, but I am sure if they had a even a mild presence they would probably be competing in that format as well.
 
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Sosai Oyama learned Goju Ryu from Gogen Yamaguchi the head of Goju-Kai.

Anyone familiar with that particular Goju faction?
 
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