If you don't like the skip step sidekick, then f*&@ you!!

ITF is a different animal.

What are the rules for ITF?

Main difference from what I can tell is Wtf doesnt have continues sparring they break on the point scored. ITF fights through the points and tally through the round and add up at the end. Points are scored the same 2 points for a headkick, 3 for jumping head kick, one point for a kick to the body, one point for punch to the body, one point for punch to the head, two points for reverse punch to the head, kinda like a superman punch. I noticed some people prefer wtf due to not haveing the berserker punching that can some times make ITF TKD look really ugly. heres another video of my instructor He came in 8th in the world cup this year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhfUvypM-GQ
 
ITF is a different animal.

What are the rules for ITF?

It's incredibly similar to WKF rules.

Main difference from what I can tell is Wtf doesnt have continues sparring they break on the point scored. ITF fights through the points and tally through the round and add up at the end. Points are scored the same 2 points for a headkick, 3 for jumping head kick, one point for a kick to the body, one point for punch to the body, one point for punch to the head, two points for reverse punch to the head, kinda like a superman punch. I noticed some people prefer wtf due to not haveing the berserker punching that can some times make ITF TKD look really ugly. heres another video of my instructor He came in 8th in the world cup this year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhfUvypM-GQ

You have this reversed. WTF is continuous sparring. ITF is point break sparring.
 
It oppens you up to devastating kicks to calf.
You're in a side stance for a small window of time before you kick, and if your opponent sees the sidekick coming, thats a big risk for such a small reward. Calf kick that won't do much damage as the kick is in motion at the same time being within range to absorb the full force of the side kick. You are however open for calf kicks if you remain in a side stance.
 
It oppens you up to devastating kicks to calf.

I agree with the poster above me, I guess someone could kick the post leg, but it would be hard to do if it was fluid. I guess if the guy kept leading out with a sidekick you would see it and then could sweep that post leg right out.
 
I am a TKD student my self ITF, and I have know idea why you would say in sport TKD its useless Im guessing WTF is different. I do alot of my work off the sidekick throw that jab and your ribs are exposed. through a rear leg round house and the side kick is the perfect counter. Heres a video of my instructor side kick mastery in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMf4B6JIV_g

Yup totally different animal. High level WTF is all about whoever fires a kick off first, resetting, and going again. Sidekick is too slow and telegraphs too soon.
 
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I may stand corrected. Let me research.

Yes, looks like I stand corrected about ITF, outside of some resets, it does stay continuous. WKF still looks continuous with no stops for points from what I read and see, but now I'm wondering if I should wait to speak up on that

ITF is continuous.

According to the rules, WTF sparring is continuous. In practice, WTF is not continuous. I very rarely see one exchange follow another without the ref handing a penalty out or at least a warning for inactivity.

I'm not sure if you mean WKF or WTF, if it's the former I have no idea :)
 
Agreed. Dan Hardy has a nice step side kick. Jones has been developing his as well.
 
I may stand corrected. Let me research.

Yes, looks like I stand corrected about ITF, outside of some resets, it does stay continuous. WKF still looks continuous with no stops for points from what I read and see, but now I'm wondering if I should wait to speak up on that

WKF is Karate?
 
this guy uses it on mma, plus he has good boxing



Is this kick from karate too??? because I dunno where I learned to do it with the right leg on southpaw stance (or spinning back kick for orthodox)


hes one of my favorite fighters to watch. you see the jab cinic he put on wats his name last month?
 
hes one of my favorite fighters to watch. you see the jab cinic he put on wats his name last month?

His fight with Sam Stout? That was all about the jab and left hook. Beautiful performance from Makdessi. His boxing is looking pretty crisp, and you've got to love a man who throws side kicks and hook kicks in the ring.
 
WKF is Karate?

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I can take your suggestion was in jest, however, I would like to clarify WKF certainly has its roots in a martial arts technique. It is evident that for decades it has had free bastardized interpretation and exploitation of the rule set that is. And like the Odontocetes somehow evolved from unrecognizable form. The same is true for the WKF and what evolved from. In any case, should be a powerful reminder WTF what happens when the rules are malformations.

Agreed. Dan Hardy has a nice step side kick. Jones has been developing his as well.

I find these assertions to be accurate. Shannon Ritch delivers in method as well.



I noticed some people prefer wtf due to not haveing the berserker punching that can some times make ITF TKD look really ugly.

To address the "berserker" drill:

The question lies both in the execution, both defensively attacker / defender and set of rules.

Execution: Defender running backwards with his back facing opponent. This leaves the body open to attack with out the opportunity to defend. Attacker is in pure control of striking but defender can create too much space and attacker can not use heavy force or strike vulnerable targets.

Defense: The attacker is advancing recklessly off balance throwing strikes while covering a lot of distance. Although the techniques that have little leverage score the same as properly executed techniques. All vital targets except the head are disallowed contact and only a medium contact strike will be ruled as correct or legal in approach.

Rule of establishment: The competition area is very large, the rules allow too much interpretation of rules and too many techniques are disallowed.

Think about what would happen during the "beserker punches" if he was in a ring and attacking the legs, spine and neck. This is only striking, if grappling was allowed the person being attacked is certainly doomed. Again, while this is less than the deformation of combat than the wkf, it allows athletes rely on techniques that do not translate well in actual combat.

One more for fun. To get this down, practice doing jumping spins from your fighting stance. If your right leg is back, your right shoulder comes forward in the circle.

Once you can do a solid 180+ like this, try adding the turning sidekick in. Use your hips to get the spin and spring into it. This is actually a better kick for me than a planted turning side kick and I like it as a counter.

My problem with the proposed technique is if the attacker misses. It is left is a very committed position where he is also very vulnerable. I will further explain my reasoning at the end of this post.

1.)The reason being, there is never a shortage of opponents trying to close the gap. Everyone wants to punch you in the face or wrestle but almost no one wants to play outside kicking range. I've almost never felt like I needed to slide out to hit someone. Stepping back and hitting is pretty normal, but not forward.

2.)When I slide forward to kick, it usually plays into the most common opponents' hands because if I miss, they will be able to take just a small movement forward and be in punching or clinching range.

3.)Anyone else feel that?

4.)Edit - also, with the sliding version, where you just bounce on your support foot to come forward, I think it is harder to capitalize on this sort of movement in TKD because of the rules against punching to the face and grappling. In MMA, the counter hit is so much easier to pull off, so there is more risk in doing something that you can see coming from that far.

1.) Would it be correct to assume that you are typically reactive in your approach?

I also suspect that many people are afraid or feel at a disadvantage in the struggle at kicking range with you. This may come from a background of gripping fear of you, or just your attackers being more aggressive you. Maybe a grappling strategy at heart? If I'm correct you're larger than most of your opponents, where at your kicking range they'd be unable to strike, forcing them to closer range combat.

2.) Agreed. The attacker with his leg up is also jammed and off balance. The man with his leg up sliding is easy to sweep, jam/catch his kick and take his back.

3.) Agreed. Addressed above.

4.) Agreed. I disagree the caveat of this technique shouldn't be the face punches, but grappling and hitting the back and legs.

The issue involved from engaging with from leg kicks from a perpendicular stance in MMA's rule structures is leg attacks and grappling from outside the clinch. Punching is easier to defend in theory. Under MMA sparring my biggest issues involving this stance have been opponents who rush my kick forcing a jam or catching of my technique. From there I have been thrown, swept, and had my back taken while standing. This is from my experience however, there is always someone talented enough to develop an effective strategy.
 
My problem with the proposed technique is if the attacker misses. It is left is a very committed position where he is also very vulnerable. I will further explain my reasoning at the end of this post.

Then don't miss, it's that simple.

Also, what in the fuck is up with the whales? What point do they help?
 
ITF is continuous.

According to the rules, WTF sparring is continuous. In practice, WTF is not continuous. I very rarely see one exchange follow another without the ref handing a penalty out or at least a warning for inactivity.

I'm not sure if you mean WKF or WTF, if it's the former I have no idea :)

WKF is Karate?

Sorry, I competed heavily in the WKF in my youth. Old terminology. I was trying to talk about WTF.
 
The issue involved from engaging with from leg kicks from a perpendicular stance in MMA's rule structures is leg attacks and grappling from outside the clinch. Punching is easier to defend in theory. Under MMA sparring my biggest issues involving this stance have been opponents who rush my kick forcing a jam or catching of my technique. From there I have been thrown, swept, and had my back taken while standing. This is from my experience however, there is always someone talented enough to develop an effective strategy.

Sure. I try to talk about this stuff as much as I can with the image of equals in my head. Experience still creeps in.

When it comes to people at kicking range, I've always felt the large amount of skill people in combat sports have at boxing / wrestling makes the kicking range an oddity.

So, for people catching the kick, there are two remedies. If you rechamber it fast and hard enough, it is practically impossible to catch. If they do catch it, throw a short "1 inch kick" right away and knock them off. If they "jam it" by coming in, I like to think of that in a positive way and say they "walked into it." The best hits I've ever had with that kick have been half extended because I drew the chamber tight and they walked into the kick.

To me, the worst counter, and the one I've seen the most, is someone parrying the kick so that your back turns a little, and then they throw the heaviest MT kick they can manage at your back or side. That sucks.
 
to Fierce red belt, I enjoyed your Breakdown of the berserker, very well thought out. My problem with the berserker in point fighting is that inorder to make the berserker think defence instead of offence, you have to hit him hard enough for him to realize he was hit.

If the berserker feel's no penalty for winging crazy haymaker shots he will continue to do so.

In continuous point sparring the beserker has the ability to win with less skill because he doesn't have to worry about strong counters.

Allow harder shots, berserker starts thinking about counters in stead of walking through them like flys.
 
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