If you consider chuck and randy world champions, then you must do the same for Lima and pitbull!!!

The UFC HW/LHW divisions were the B leagues before the Pride merger.

Thought that was pretty common knowledge...
 
In combat sports champions make the belt, not the other way around. Lima is a top WW, there is no denying that. It's not like Matt Serra, say, would be considered above Lima just because he once held UFC gold.

That said, the UFC definitely has the deepest talent pool in that division, there is no denying that either, thus it makes sense that UFC champs are considered "above" belts in other organizations.
 
Bogeyman said:
Nobody doubts Strikeforce from what I've seen. A lot of their champs went in to be UFC champs or title contenders. Bellator on the other hand, never got anywhere close to either. It's a small step above the regional promotions, and that's being generous.
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See, this is the problem. You know those guys at Strikeforce came in a took UFC gold, but you don't think it's possible for Bellator fighters to do it?
Pitbull is top three at 45. Lima is top five at 70. Either of them would be a live dog against their UFC counter-part.
 
Gmork said:
Yeah, no, he wouldn't.

Randy and Chuck absolutely were the best in their division in their respective moments. That's a dumbass statement.

Lima and Pitbull are world champs. It's like boxing, there are different belts (without cross promotion fights.) There's not one Ring Magazine MMA title.
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Huh are u serious ? How can randy be the best when fedor was around ?!!! How can chuck be the best when shogun , rampage was around ?
 
I consider PRIDE, WEC, Strikeforce to be legitimate world titles. ONE FC can go fuck itself with its 1 trillion viewers, and Bellator is pretty meh.
 
Gmork said:
Yeah, no, he wouldn't.

Randy and Chuck absolutely were the best in their division in their respective moments. That's a dumbass statement.

Lima and Pitbull are world champs. It's like boxing, there are different belts (without cross promotion fights.) There's not one Ring Magazine MMA title.
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Chuck wasn't #1 considering he got beaten badly by Rampage who subsequently got obliterated by Wanderlei. Before you criticize me on mmamath, Shogun was also in PRIDE and was much deadlier than his UFC run. Prime Shogun would've starched Chuck faster than he did in the UFC. Simply put, PRIDE had the better LHW and HW fighters.
 
I consider each to be the champion of their organization. If they fight each other, great. If they don't, oh well.
 
Isthat-yo bop said:
I just have to say this , I’m starting to think sherdog is ran by ufc interns. I see comments saying bellator/ one fc belts are worthless. People still downplay the significance of the strikeforce title . Randy And chuck we’re never the best in their respective division . No one ever questions their champ status . But a guy like Lima who showcases world class talent isn’t a top five WW? Also chuck had the chance to prove it and he lost . Is the ufc belt the only one that can be recognized as a world title ?
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If you are talking about pride, fighting in a square boxing ring is very different to fighting in a cage. Loads of UFC fighters would be less effective in a ring especially Randy, he used the cage as much as anyone. I still remember prime gonzaga getting beat up by Randy when Randy looked tiny compared to him. You can argue the cage didn't matter as much to chuck but Randy was a master.

You are also talking about a different era and comparing people is really hard because of the professionalism in MMA has risen dramatically.

That said hopefully Lima gets a chance in the UFC and we can see where he rates. UFC is still clearly the peak org but the smaller orgs are gathering some talent but that is the way the mma ecosystem has always been.
 
DestinedAussie said:
If you are talking about pride, fighting in a square boxing ring is very different to fighting in a cage. Loads of UFC fighters would be less effective in a ring especially Randy, he used the cage as much as anyone. I still remember prime gonzaga getting beat up by Randy when Randy looked tiny compared to him. You can argue the cage didn't matter as much to chuck but Randy was a master.

You are also talking about a different era and comparing people is really hard because of the professionalism in MMA has risen dramatically.

That said hopefully Lima gets a chance in the UFC and we can see where he rates. UFC is still clearly the peak org but the smaller orgs are gathering some talent but that is the way the mma ecosystem has always been.
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No version of randy is beating prime cro cop , fedor or nog . Come on now
 
Gmork said:
Yeah, no, he wouldn't.

Randy and Chuck absolutely were the best in their division in their respective moments. That's a dumbass statement.

Lima and Pitbull are world champs. It's like boxing, there are different belts (without cross promotion fights.) There's not one Ring Magazine MMA title.
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What? When were Chuck or Randy the #1 lhw? I don't believe either of them ever were. During that time frame it would have been Wand or Shogun.
 
Mamou said:
The UFC HW/LHW divisions were the B leagues before the Pride merger.

Thought that was pretty common knowledge...
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It most definitely was.
 
Isthat-yo bop said:
All zuffa owned properties
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True, but I considered them world champions before the acquisition especially PRIDE and WEC. PRIDE had the better LHW and HW divisions and WEC was the only major organization that had weight classes below 155. You'd be crazy to think Jose Aldo wasn't the best featherweight in the world at the time. The best fighter in ONE FC is Mighty Mouse who's originally a WEC/UFC fighter. The best fighter in Bellator is either Lima or Bader. Both guys are good fighters don't get me wrong, but Bader is not the best HW or LHW in the world and Lima is very questionable.
 
Gmork said:
See, this is the problem. You know those guys at Strikeforce came in a took UFC gold, but you don't think it's possible for Bellator fighters to do it?
Pitbull is top three at 45. Lima is top five at 70. Either of them would be a live dog against their UFC counter-part.
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Possible sure. Both would be underdogs though as you said. You can only base so much on potential. They would have to do what some of the strikeforce or wec champs did. Come over and prove it.
 
Gmork said:
See, this is the problem. You know those guys at Strikeforce came in a took UFC gold, but you don't think it's possible for Bellator fighters to do it?
Pitbull is top three at 45. Lima is top five at 70. Either of them would be a live dog against their UFC counter-part.
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But how do you feel about the other weight classes?
 
There are no worldchampions in MMA.
Only organisation champs.
To be worldchampion, all fighters would have to fight in the same org.
Not to mention there would have to be official rankings and not the bullshit "we decide who the no.1 contender is based of interweb likes or needlemovers" like it is now.
 
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When Pride was about it was still clear who the best was. Being a 'World Champion' has no real meaning in MMA as it's not a unified global sport. TUF 24 had 16 'World Champions' in it all at the same weight and that didn't include ONE FC, Bellator or the UFC.

No one argues that Wilder and Joshua aren't world champions, the argument is there about which of the two is the better fighter and when Wilder eventually grows a pair we'll find out.

With Lima and Pitbull it's fairly safe to assume that the UFC champions are superior but unlike boxing we'll never know as there won't ever be a cross promotion.
 
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