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If You Can't Drive An Automatic, You Can't Drive Stick: Why A New System Won't Fix MMA Judging

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Thickfreakness, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Thickfreakness Blue Belt

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    Jimmy Smith explains why education and accountability, not a new system, is needed to fix MMA judging.
     
  2. mst-dot Brown Belt

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    He's right on..
    I don't understand why people think they have some magical solution
     
  3. PicoPulse Bellator Shill

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    Jimmy Smith #1
     
  4. Thickfreakness Blue Belt

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    Agreed.
     
  5. sweetviolenturg Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    I agree with him as well. The ten-point must system allows for an accurate assessment of a fight as long as it's used properly by competent judges.
     
  6. MEAN357 Pernell Whitaker belt

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    I never learned how to drive automatic

    {<BJPeen}
     
  7. Xoleth Brown Belt

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    how about two pairs of judges?

    3 judges
    3 judges from retired fighters who don't share a common gym/common history with the judged fighters
    House of Representatives and the Senate
     
  8. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    Even with perfect judges the 10-point system for a THREE round fight is garbage.

    There are lots of problems with it, even with perfect judges using the system as it stands.
     
  9. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    Take the scenario -

    First round is very close with fighter A just slightly edging it with some control time against the fence but zero damage at the end of the round. 10-9 to fighter A.

    Second round is clearly won this time, not completely dominated, but much more significant in terms of striking differential, damage and effect. A CLEAR 10-9 but not a 10-8 (however in retrospect to scoring round 1, makes it look like a '9.5' or 10-10).

    Yet the judges already put their score in and can't take it back... everyone knows if you were to stop the fight at that point you'd clearly give the fight to fighter B, who just clearly won that round and has been taking over the fight. But, judges can't retrospectively adjust their scores. So if you judged the round as a 10 minute section, the complexion would be very different, the "10 minute round" would clearly go to Fighter B.

    And herein lies the problem.

    Rounds are judged completely in isolation to one another, which is flawed, fights are cumulative.

    So with that simple scenario already you know it's flawed. And simply that 3 scoring opportunities with 5 minute samplings just doesn't convey the fight. Its too few of a sample if you do it that way, AND it doesn't give context of the cumulative effect where 'taking over' a fight, actually MEANS something. Winning the early part of a fight really isn't worth that much if it doesn't stop you from getting your ass kicked later down the track, does it? So how much should that 'early winning' REALLY be worth?
     
  10. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    That said, education and getting the best judges possible, would certainly help
     
  11. Kenny Powerth Jean Belt (Jelt)

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  12. Congo66 Silver Belt

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    You haven't shown a problem. You've described a fight that's 19-19 going into the 3rd.
    Finishing stronger is no better than starting stronger. Both fighters know they're in a 3 or 5 round fight and how many rounds they need to win it assuming there's no 10-8's. The new rules make it slightly more difficult as you don't have to get completely smashed any more to lose a 10-8. Open scoring might help too (it couldn't really hurt) as then you really do know what you need in the last round.
     
  13. MeatWagon06 Biting on feints

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    You never forget how to ride a bike..
     
  14. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    So you think that even if one fighter has effectively taken over the fight from say, 3 minutes into the fight until the 10 minute mark, and if the round was 10 minutes it would clearly be scored for him, but because there is a scoring sampling milestone at every minute 5 mark, its "a draw" at that point ? ...just because of the arbitrary 2nd scoring sample?

    You see I see that as having a flaw but OK, I guess I you see it differently. I think arbitrary marker points are terrible. Perhaps if it was 3 minute rounds and there were 12 of them, ok, I can see that. But 3 milestones in 15 minutes? Just score it 'overall' like OneFC/Pride (again with decent judges) and you get better results overall. I've never liked round by round (particularly for 3 rounds) as it artificially influences the fight also
     
  15. Doctor Lenovo Banned Banned

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    Educating individuals is not as effective if the system is messed up. This is what most professional organizations have learned, and it is what is being taught to all professionals in reputable Western schools.

    Most mistakes in the workplace happen because of a faulty systems. Therefore, you should design a system that is valid and reliable, and also limits human error.

    If you have a messed up system, educating the individual will not be an effective intervention to fix errors. Fix the system, and then educate individuals.
     
  16. Hirashin This is not a profession Banned

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    Ignorance, corruption and weakness. How to deal with it?
     
  17. Thickfreakness Blue Belt

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    What realistic changes to the system would limit human error?
     
  18. TJ Pillashaw Orange Belt

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    There's gotta be more then 3 judges
     
  19. Doctor Lenovo Banned Banned

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    A good starting point would be developing an actual point scoring system. Right now, the judges watch the fights and score the rounds based on their subjective experience of who they believe is winning.

    MMA doesn't have an actual scoring system that tells the judges exactly what a fighter needs to do to win the round. Without this in place, we can't blame the judges for seeing the fight as they see it.
     
  20. CallMeCasual Purple Belt

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    I don't like the 10 point scoring system for a 3 round fight at all, not even for a 5 rounder. I believe the fight should be judged as a whole, look at total significant strikes, knockdowns, takedowns, octagon control, etc and of course, the damage done.
     

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