If reach doesn't matter, explain Tim Sylvia

ticho123 said:
If reach does matter explain Mike Tyson.


...this game is stupid
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I know Tyson was washed up when he fought Lennox Lewis, but Lewis's reach would of given any version of tyson serious problems.
 
Tim Sylvia's had a very good career. I'm sure he'll look back with pride that he genuinely achieved a lot and that only a tiny minors could get close to what he did. Reach is one of the factors. Let's enjoy the fight.
 
Cyril Diabate, Ben Saunders, Stephan Struve, Francis Carmot...all fighters with an extreme reach advantage, all dominant champions who no one could deal with.
 
If you want to see reach in action, re-watch Sylvia/Monson.

[Or, you know, "Watch" it, since it was 2006, and I suspect not all of you were born then. :) ]

Anyway, reach isn't the end-all be-all of fighting, but a shorter fighter CAN be completely neutralized by a taller, longer fighter, even when the shorter fighter is "better." Sylvia/Monson demonstrates it well. Monson took Big Timmie down several times and poor Jeff's t-rex arms could barely reach Tim's giant noggin from guard. :(
 
The HW division was notoriously shallow, and Tim was just big/skilled enough to not suffer from diminishing returns(Randy).

Explanation granted.
 
What the hell? Of course reach matters. It's just about how one uses his reach and how the opponent reacts to it.
 
Wayweary said:
Reach does matter; it's not the ONLY thing that matters. So bringing up Tyson like it disproves the importance of reach is stupid.
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If you're a good fighter and able to use your reach well then it's a very strong attribute. Shorter fighters can still reach the top though (no pun intended) since shorter arms have an easier time finding space on the inside.

Fighting is about technique, fortitude, intelligence, physical attributes, and being able to use all of the above efficiently. A short fighter won't win a war of jabs and oblique kicks against someone like Jones, no, but if they can find an angle they can blitz him. If reachier fighters where inherently better than the divisional champions would reflect this. Instead most of them - besides Jones who is on the tall end and Cain who might be on the short end - are about average for their weight class. There are advantages and disadvantages to both builds.
 
rusty1007 said:
There is more than reach but bringing Tyson up is an example of why there are more attributes. Definitely not stupid.
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It's stupid if your point is "reach doesn't matter b/c Tyson."
 
TheMax said:
If you want to see reach in action, re-watch Sylvia/Monson.

[Or, you know, "Watch" it, since it was 2006, and I suspect not all of you were born then. :) ]

Anyway, reach isn't the end-all be-all of fighting, but a shorter fighter CAN be completely neutralized by a taller, longer fighter, even when the shorter fighter is "better." Sylvia/Monson demonstrates it well. Monson took Big Timmie down several times and poor Jeff's t-rex arms could barely reach Tim's giant noggin from guard. :(
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No, don't watch or re-watch it. It was terrible. Even his teammates were pissed at him during that fight.
 
Combat Wombatt said:
If Jones didn't have a 84" inch wingspan and DC didn't have a 71" inch reach it would be a very different fight. Even though DC has a great chance at beating Jones and I think he could beat Cain and rule the HW division, I don't see him winning tomorrow. I think because of his reach disadvantage, you will see DC lose this fight to Jones via decision. If they had the same reach, I think DC would be taking this fight. That's how important reach is.

Since Jones has a 13" reach advantage and is a versatile, smooth, and creative striker he will be able to keep DC at bay when he wants to and will be able to bring him in close to clinch or TD when he wants to also. Reach will be the key to this fight.


I think so many people under-estimate how important reach is. I believe reach is the greatest physical asset you can have because it never deteriorates with age like all of the other skills and it can be improved upon with skill.



Speed, great chin, strength, reflexes, power, and all of the other natural born assets that fighters can have diminish with age. Your chin doesn't get better with age and especially as you take hits, your strength reaches a plateau and at a certain age you just will never be as strong as you once were, reflexes and power eventually go down, but reach doesn't diminish with age. Look at the greats like Anderson and Fedor, eventually father time caught up with them and they suffered.


If you have a great jab you can really do quite a lot with it. Keep strikers at bay, keep wrestlers too far away for TD's, it can make your elbows vertical or horizontal far more deadly, and many other things.

Take Jessamyn Duke for example, a perfect example of how not to utilize your reach advantage. Instead of pumping a good jab and then using her combos and powershots she gets in close and beat up.

Then look at Tim Sylvia. Not a great athlete, not super powerful, or fast, or extremely skilled, but he had a great jab that he would keep opponents at bay with and eventually his hits would add up and he could add a more powerful strike, hurting his opponents. You could say his opponents at the time were weak, but he still did great while not being a great athlete himself. All because of his reach.


So, if you think reach isn't one of the greatest assets a fighter can have, you are wrong. It really is one of the greatest assets you can have, especially since you can build off of it to make it deadly and it doesn't deteriorate with age like all other physical attributes.
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randy-couture-vs-Tim-Sylvia-2.jpg


UFC+68+-+Randy+Couture+X+Tim+Sylvia2.gif
 
Elysianwing said:
The HW division was notoriously shallow, and Tim was just big/skilled enough to not suffer from diminishing returns(Randy).

Explanation granted.
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Speaking of underrated, I hate how losing to randy exposes Tim somehow.

Anyway. I'm sold ts. I have long reach for my height so I'm going to sign up for ufc tomorrow.

Any other posters with good reach wanna join me? I'm thought maybe other guys might have a chance but after reading this thread I'm ready to give mma a try.
 
Sylvia had power in his hands. That's the only reason why he was successful. He would get owned against evolved fighters that the UFC breeds now.
 
Hendo101 said:
Sylvia had power in his hands. That's the only reason why he was successful. He would get owned against evolved fighters that the UFC breeds now.
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Tim would beat Bigfoot, hunt, stipe, Browne, shaub, and of course andrie in my opinion. Nelson and rothwell too. Oh and reem
 
Nobody said reach doesn't matter, and if they did they're ignorant.

What I and many other have said however, is that reach is part of a fighters arsenal if they use it correctly and shouldn't be used against them as an excuse for why they're good. Physical gifts are part of why athletes are good.
 
He had reach, KO power, confidence. He had quite a few solid performances.
 
Adrie never beats a prime tim.
Reem would get knocked out.
He already beat rothwell.
Nelson would get outboxed
 
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