If Karelin did not lose the clinch, would he have beaten Gardner by decision?

[Pequeño Corey]

Thread is not even remotely MMA adjacent. Mods need to start policing this shit or the heavies will soon become a generalized “combat sports discussion forum.”

 

[HHJ]

Thread is not even remotely MMA adjacent. Mods need to start policing this shit or the heavies will soon become a generalized “combat sports discussion forum.”

You a cop or something? Shut up.

 

[Kuggoz]

Garner was a tough son of a bitch with some bad luck who seemed to survive the worst life threw at him. Got shot in the stomach with a bow and arrow as a kid, crashed his snowmobile stranding him in the wilderness and survived hypothermia with severe frostbite that cost him his toe, survived a plane crash and swam an hour in freezing water, and worst of all was matched up against the Russian Experiment Aleksandr Karelin and not only survived but won. May have been the lamest way to win possible, but he's the only dude in over a decade of dominance to be so lucky.

He didn't win though, Karelin lost. Thats like winning a boxing match by blocking every single strike but not throwing one yourself either.

 

[Aluminati]

Karelin would son Khabib so bad he'd think he was in an orphanage for black market children.

I'd pick present day Karelin against Abdulmnap & Khabib.

 

[Slick_36]

He didn't win though, Karelin lost. Thats like winning a boxing match by blocking every single strike but not throwing one yourself either.

You're missing the point, my guy.

 

[ijngf]

Karelin would son Khabib so bad he'd think he was in an orphanage for black market children.

How did you think out this analogy?

 

[ijngf]

Gardner would have destroyed Karelin in MMA based on what we saw in their one fight a piece, he was a natural with his hands.

That brings up a point about A-level athletes and how they would do in MMA.

I definitely believe there is a correlation between athleticism and success in MMA, but people tend to think LeBron for example would make for the best fighter from the NBA since he's the best basketball player, but in reality there is probably some supporting role player out there that is way more talented for fighting. Even though the guy isn't as good at basketball, he's still an incredible athlete for being NBA level, and has more attributes for fighting.

Look at the difference in natural striking ability between Mitrione and Marcus Jones for example, while Jones blew him away as far as football talent.

I remember Gardner tried an MMA fight, but he did not perform very well.

 

[ijngf]

I personally think Shaq would have crushed any version of LeBron in MMA. I'm still of the opinion that Shaq won his boxing match against De La Hoya, and that with a bit of training he could have become boxing's HW champ even in his old age after retiring from the NBA.

Many also think Pacquiao won his fight against Mayweather, though statistics show the other way.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

I remember Gardner tried an MMA fight, but he did not perform very well.

He beat the more experienced Yoshida in his debut, granted he was much bigger. He used sprawl and brawl and won a point fight with his sick boxing.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

I remember Gardner tried an MMA fight, but he did not perform very well.

He did very well. Yoshida was not an all time MMA great, but he was solid and formidable. Gardner boxed him up and Yoshida couldn't get anything going.

Now, maybe we should have known that a judoka wouldn't be able to throw a GR guy that outweighs him 100lbs. But the surprising thing was how he never really even got close enough to try (maybe I shouldn't say 'never'; I certainly don't remember every facet of this fight 15 from ago).

I actually look forward to this thread being moved to the grappling forum, see how those guys answer your original question.

 

[HHJ]

I dont think his boxing was that impressive. He was just too big for yoshida to close the distance. He was able to keep him at bay with rudimentary boxing,but it was kind of a bad fight to watch.

 

[ijngf]

Yes he would have won. Gardner did nothing to win, Karelin did something to lose. 4 years later Gardner only won bronze.

I was confused that Karelin tried repeatedly to do a lift instead of a rolling bridge even when he was having a 0-1 deficit.

 

[blaseblah]

Gardner would have destroyed Karelin in MMA based on what we saw in their one fight a piece, he was a natural with his hands.

That brings up a point about A-level athletes and how they would do in MMA.

I definitely believe there is a correlation between athleticism and success in MMA, but people tend to think LeBron for example would make for the best fighter from the NBA since he's the best basketball player, but in reality there is probably some supporting role player out there that is way more talented for fighting. Even though the guy isn't as good at basketball, he's still an incredible athlete for being NBA level, and has more attributes for fighting.

Look at the difference in natural striking ability between Mitrione and Marcus Jones for example, while Jones blew him away as far as football talent.

Yup. Especially when it comes to QBs. They are typically the most famous and celebrated football players but they are usually physically outmatched by most of their team.

Hockey is a sport where less talented players used to be signed based on their fighting ability.

 

[ijngf]

I wish we could've seen Karelin compete under freestyle -- he was such a force. I wasn't around the sport during his time (I'm 32), but he really is in a class of its own, seemingly.

He does practice Sambo though.

 

[ijngf]

He did very well. Yoshida was not an all time MMA great, but he was solid and formidable. Gardner boxed him up and Yoshida couldn't get anything going.

Now, maybe we should have known that a judoka wouldn't be able to throw a GR guy that outweighs him 100lbs. But the surprising thing was how he never really even got close enough to try (maybe I shouldn't' say 'never'; I certainly don't remember every facet of this fight 15 from ago).

I actually look forward to this thread being moved to the grappling forum, see how those guys answer your original question.

He was just too big and strong for his opponent, and he failed to use his wrestling techniques well. That is why I think he did not perform well.

 

[ijngf]

Yes he would have won. Gardner did nothing to win, Karelin did something to lose. 4 years later Gardner only won bronze.

But he did win a gold in world championships in 2001. After that year, he flopped.

 

[Timurd123]

I personally think Shaq would have crushed any version of LeBron in MMA. I'm still of the opinion that Shaq won his boxing match against De La Hoya, and that with a bit of training he could have become boxing's HW champ even in his old age after retiring from the NBA.

He looked surprisingly quick even with a manlet like Oscar, Oscar was shitting his pants too, I got a good laugh out of that clip
Shaq is one of the best athletes in the history of sports and is actually moderately talented, he would’ve done extremely well in any sport that his size would help him in

 

[Darkart]

It was an exhibition match against a retired bloke who spends most of his time snorting coke and cross dressing.

The idea that Shaq could’ve become the undisputed heavyweight champion after retiring from the NBA is nonsense.

..your telling me Shaq when he retired at 39 couldn't take out the HW champ at the time (Valuev) had he trained?

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Maybe English is not your primary language, or maybe you're just being lazy with language, but I'm going to nitpick you now. I apologize in advance if I come off as pretentious or dickish for going down this rabbit hole on what was possibly just a simple misunderstanding.

He was just too big and tall for his opponent, and he failed to use his wrestling techniques well.

If by fail you mean 'tried but didn't succeed', then you're wrong. But if you mean fail as in 'consciously chose not to' use his wrestling, then sure.

His goal was not the same as yours. Maybe you wanted to see how a gold medal jukoda would do on the ground in a NHB situation against a gold medal GR wrestler, and were resentful when you didn't get that. That's fine; all of us went through something like that. He surprised us all by boxing Yoshida up something fierce. But don't confuse your own frustration about how the fight went with a failure on his part.

That is why I think he did not perform well.

His goal was to win a NHB fight. He created a winning game plan and executed it pretty fucking flawlessly.

 

[blaccbeard]

Karelin was on some of the most super powered steroids ever created by Russian scientists deep in the Dyatlov Pass Labs. And he got beat by a chubby All American farm boy, God Bless America!