If HBK never returned in 2002 where would he rank? Still GOAT?

I don't think the second half of his career is near as good as the first. Yes he had some good matches but overall I found it pretty forgettable. Still one of the best in ring performers but not the GOAT.
 
Bret is the GOAT. Hands down. Bret put the sharpshooter on and made HBK tap in 92. I never liked HBK. HBK seemed very effeminate and Vince and HBK seemed to have a weird relationship.

Bret is the best there is, best there was, best there ever will be and there’s a reason why they say that. The only reason why HBK gets any shine is because his backstabbing and backstage politicking and sucking up to Vince.
 
redapplecigz said:
Bret is the GOAT. Hands down. Bret put the sharpshooter on and made HBK tap in 92. I never liked HBK. HBK seemed very effeminate and Vince and HBK seemed to have a weird relationship.

Bret is the best there is, best there was, best there ever will be and there’s a reason why they say that. The only reason why HBK gets any shine is because his backstabbing and backstage politicking and sucking up to Vince.
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How old are you?
 
I'm glad he came back we wouldn't of had the GOAT match at wrestlemania 25 against the Undertaker if he didn't and other great matches, he still would of been viewed as a great, but the return really helped him.
 
LLD2008 said:
I'm glad he came back we wouldn't of had the GOAT match at wrestlemania 25 against the Undertaker if he didn't and other great matches, he still would of been viewed as a great, but the return really helped him.
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HBK was a pu$$y. Bret grabbed HBK by the hair and shoot threw HBK around like a rag doll backstage and ripped HBK’s hair out. Then the pu$$y HBK went running and crying to Vince tattletaling that Bret beat his a$$ and saying it’s an “unsafe work environment” Lol what a pu$$y HBK is.

then after the Montreal screwjob when Bret confronted the pu$$y HBK in the locker room, HBK was legit crying in the corner like the scared little pu$$y that he is.

and HBK got beat up by a marine, because once again, HBK is a pu$$y.

all 3 of those are true stories. Research it if you don’t believe me. And you want to say some little pu$$y like HBK is great?? Lol gtfo
 
His return was a mixed bag but a new generation of fans were able to see him still having some great matches. It for sure benefitted his legacy.
 
I would have liked for Shawn Michaels to pull out yet another WrestleMania win in 2004, but Chris Benoit got it. Easily my favorite match of Shawn's return
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I know all about Bret Hart-Shawn and I am forgiving now because looking back on it Shawn jobbed a lot in his return. A WrestleMania loss to Triple H/Chris Benoit, a loss to Kurt Angle, a loss to John Cena, 2x loss to Undertaker, a SummerSlam loss to Hulk Hogan etc
 
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If it was just based on his first run, his career would've been overshadowed by his backstage antics and issues......his post 2002 run was his career redemption.
 
GOAT of what, exactly?

<Dany07>
 
I think 2nd half of his career moved him up a bit .... Angle and taker matches were legendary imo
 
deezy said:
If it was just based on his first run, his career would've been overshadowed by his backstage antics and issues......his post 2002 run was his career redemption.
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This.

Without his second run, he's looked at as a prima donna flame-out who wasn't worth the chub that Vince McMahon had for him. But his second run softens all those harsh edges and because there's a recency bias when judging sports, he is remembered more fondly. He was a great performer who's curtain call was so entertaining, you'd forgive all the other bullshit.

I think Bret's run in totality still outshines Shawn's. Better breadth of matches with a greater contingent of wrestlers over a longer period of time and his greatest match (Stone Cold at WM13) is greater than Michaels greatest (Taker at WM25) IMHO
 
I think he'd still be up there, but his redemption story and subsequent great matches afterwards, made his legend undeniable. Before that, he'd still be remembered as one of the GOATs, but would likely be overshadowed a bit by others.

For every amazing match that sticks out, think of the other ones that don't have the same clout but are equally as good, if not better. Like his matches with Angle, Jericho, or Flair.

It's hard to argue against the run he had.
 
Bret's WCW run is underrated in terms of what he did as a worker. Once he got over his injuries, he was as good as anyone. His matches with Benoit were all-time classics, likewise for his matches with Booker T and to some extent, Malenko. Take away the Goldberg kick and I think he was probably shaping up for another great run. And honestly, even aside from work rate, he had some great stuff, such as his face-off with Goldberg where he had the metal plate under his shirt.
 
redapplecigz said:
HBK was a pu$$y. Bret grabbed HBK by the hair and shoot threw HBK around like a rag doll backstage and ripped HBK’s hair out. Then the pu$$y HBK went running and crying to Vince tattletaling that Bret beat his a$$ and saying it’s an “unsafe work environment” Lol what a pu$$y HBK is.

then after the Montreal screwjob when Bret confronted the pu$$y HBK in the locker room, HBK was legit crying in the corner like the scared little pu$$y that he is.

and HBK got beat up by a marine, because once again, HBK is a pu$$y.

all 3 of those are true stories. Research it if you don’t believe me. And you want to say some little pu$$y like HBK is great?? Lol gtfo
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You know wrestling isn't real, right?
 
Kforcer said:
Bret's WCW run is underrated in terms of what he did as a worker. Once he got over his injuries, he was as good as anyone. His matches with Benoit were all-time classics, likewise for his matches with Booker T and to some extent, Malenko. Take away the Goldberg kick and I think he was probably shaping up for another great run. And honestly, even aside from work rate, he had some great stuff, such as his face-off with Goldberg where he had the metal plate under his shirt.
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I tend to agree. Unfortunately, both Bret and WWE own the narrative now. According to WWE, WCW never did anything good. According to Bret, anyone he ever came across is a POS.

I don't trust either of their stories about anything. Bret's WCW run wasnt ideal, but he was involved in some good stuff.
 
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