If Floyd lost to Castillo in their first matchup...

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by 10000 Days, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. 10000 Days

    10000 Days Green Belt

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    ...Would Floyd still be as big of a star as he is now? Or is Mayweather truly a fan-friendly boxer that made him a PPV king, regardless whether he is undefeated or not?
     
  2. LogicalInsanity

    LogicalInsanity Co-Founder of SDLS (Sexual Deviant Leftist Scum)

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    it's really silly, but no he wouldn't..

    the "0" next to a record carries a lot of weight...

    even if a fighter has fought nothing but bums and over the hill fighters, an undefeated record possesses a great deal of clout and has a mystique to it.

    In Mayweather's situation, not only does he have his fans tune in, you also have a lot of fight fans tuning in to watch him lose.
     
  3. nac386

    nac386 Gold Belt

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    Yeah, I agree with LI here. The 0 carries a lot of clout in boxing. Look at what it has done for Marciano and Joe Calzaghe.

    Mayweather would still be a huge star though, the biggest in the sport. He just might not be as record-breakingly huge as he is now.
     
  4. nastyleft

    nastyleft Brown Belt

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    I don't think it's really the Castillo fight, nor is it the "0". It's been his aura of unbeatability for over the last decade. Sure there's some mystique to being undefeated, but 1 close loss 13 years ago that he avenged immediately in easy fashion; he'd be probably just as huge as he is now. Maybe more respected, because more people would accept his resume and not be dismissing it as a cakewalk (it's a lot easier to dismiss an undefeated record as having an easy go at it, than a guys record giving the perception he's actually been challenged with a blemish or two). He still would've won just as many titles, defended just as many belts and probably made just as much money. But I think he might've been respected a little more, to have lost and avenged that loss in dominant fashion.

    It's the Oscar fight that put him on the map as "The Man" in boxing, (they still would've broke PPV records that night regardless). Nobody would be caring about that loss because all they'd be thinkin about is the brash, shit-talkin "Money" Mayweather they were introduced to on that Summer of 2007. The man we love to hate and buy PPVs every year to see him lose...
     
  5. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    Nasty.. the rematch wasn't easy..the judges actually had the rematch closer than the first fight.. Floyd won the rematch..do doubt.. but it wasn't easy...

    Had the proper verdict been given in the first match, Floyd would not have had leverage to demand fights with the biggest fighters in the world..Oscar would have had no reason to face Floyd.. and Floyd would have never received the Golden bump.. which turned him from a guy that couldn't sell out the mandalay at May vs. Castillo 2..with Wlad vs. McLine on the undercard..and tickets that cost only 40 bucks... into the a person that could sell out the mandalay for a weigh in....

    Now, that may sound negative, but it is actually a complement.. Floyd was so damn good that he needed incentive to get people to step in the ring with him.. he wasn't building that incentive by being a killer in the ring..he was building that incentive by showing is 0 off and claiming nobody can take..and proving time and time again that nobody could...without that leverage, he would be a Pernell level seller.. nobody would have fought him that had any major pull and he would have probably became a much more aggressive fighter to increase his marketability...though that tactic doesn't always work either..He really owes a yearly christmas card to the judges in that first Castillo fight..they raised his ceiling.
     
  6. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    Mind you.... this fight happened before Floyd hired his boy Peanut to help with keeping him in the loop of opponents he has coming up.

    You might remember that it was his boy Peanut who really messed up in getting the photo of Ronda to Floyd.
     
  7. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

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    I always find it amazing that people feel he lost but give him no credit for floyd beating him easy the 2nd time around.

    He doesn't get credit for digging deep n fighting through Maidanas tactics.

    The list goes on n on.

    Ps. First fight was a draw btw. No way floyd lost more than 6 rounds.
     
  8. Confucamus

    Confucamus Last of the V8s Platinum Member

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    If Castillo was rightfully given the decision and Floyd didn't have his "0" then Floyd would lose a huge selling point. His fights aren't exciting enough alone to get casuals buying his PPV. His big mouth and dumb antics, along with the "Who's going to be the first to defeat Floyd"aura of his fights draws people in. He would've fought Castillo 2 more times and probably would've won the rubber match.

    If history followed that the way it's gone in real life, it'd remain his only defeat. People who hated him would reference it constantly and his fans would swear up and down that it was a robbery. It would be overanalyzed to death. I'm sure Floyd would still be a big star with great PPV numbers. But nowhere near what he is able to draw in fighting Pac or Canelo. Most casuals just wouldn't give a fuck about him.
     
  9. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    Um.. Floyd gets plenty of credit.. not as much as you give him.. but plenty...

    the second Castillo fight was not easy.. go watch it again.. the judges scored it closer than the first.. He gave May a fight 2 times...

    He doesn't get much credit for Maidana because he held all night..copied Devon Alexanders tactics..and did worse than Devon Alexander did against him... Devon shut Maidana out.. and Mayweather didn't.. so that has a little to do with why he doesn't get much credit for those fights...they were lackluster performances.
     
  10. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    According to lots of people on this site, Floyd would actually be greater if he had lost to someone.

    I personally never really understood that line of thinking but some do indeed say that.
     
  11. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Most fans always found it ironic that Floyd clearly won the second fight and the judges saw it close, while they had it wide in the first one which was more competive. The first fight was close. The rematch wasn't really.
     
  12. nastyleft

    nastyleft Brown Belt

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    Agreed...Castillo did some nice things made it hard for Floyd but never really had "control" or a "lead" in the first fight. Didn't quite do enough to win it. Not even by and edge. At best I could see a draw, at best. No way I can find more than 6 rounds Castillo may have won.

    The 2nd fight the judges may have been giving the benefit of the doubt because the first fight was so highly disputed by the media and fans, but Floyd took the lead and never really showed much evidence of giving it up in the 2nd fight. Castillo was game, but got outclassed and neutralized from what worked well for him the first fight.

    Cracky, no fight is easy, some guys just finish better.
     
  13. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    I don't think he would have been viewed as great, but I do think it would have put a chip on his shoulder..and we would have gotten to see him take out his frustrations in a more brutal and less cautious fashion
     
  14. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    Yeah it was close.. about 30 landed punches seperated the two.. Mayweather won for sure.. but people are conveniently forgetting how competitive it was...

    I agree..I always found it odd that this fight was scored more closely than the first... which has always kind of fueled my suspicions that the fix was in during the first fight.. but it was probably just a coincidence and shit judging...
     
  15. nastyleft

    nastyleft Brown Belt

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    I think it was the Judah fight and being at 147lbs, that may have been a turning point for him to start to decrease the damage and pick his spots, be more defensive. Up until then, dude was a destroyer. Some of these guys here don't know some of Floyd's KOs were kind of highlight reel stuff.
     
  16. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    I don't even think the Judah fight was a cautious performance..I felt like he was efficient.. but I wouldnt rate it as cautious..he was beating the piss out of him..

    I think the first time I seen him go completely cautious was probably in the Baldo fight.. I was in shock.. people were leaving.. and I really wasn't accustomed to people talking 9 kinds of shit to get people in the doors and then fighting safety first and fuck you and your price of admission..lol...

    But you are right.. Mayweather was a killer for a lot of his career..that's why I don't accept the excuse for the Pac fight "we all knew what to expect from Floyd"... no we didn't... he shows up and fucks people up sometimes...I want to see that Floyd..I would buy every fight and rock a tmt hat if I could just see that Floyd everytime out...lol
     
  17. KAZSoliloquy

    KAZSoliloquy Look at the state of his face

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    Hard to say. Losses changes fighters dramatically in many cases, whether for better or worse. He likely would have had a completely different career after that fight. That said, his "-0" carries a huge amount of weight in American boxing culture. Wlad has some embarrassing losses on his record and he's still a massive star but that's a different culture.
     
  18. Marc A

    Marc A Being broke is being dishonest

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    I don't know if it would have hurt , didn't hurt pacman but it would have forced money to fight more aggressive but with his fragile hands who knows how that would have turned out
     
  19. LogicalInsanity

    LogicalInsanity Co-Founder of SDLS (Sexual Deviant Leftist Scum)

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    Take Roy Jones Jr for example and his DQ bullshit loss to Montell Griffin...

    He was still considered the king of that division...but still, lost that mystique...

    It's silly...and rather dumb.


    I mean part of Ronda Rousey's aura and mystique is her "0".
     
  20. robjenkins2

    robjenkins2 Gold Belt

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    Why do boxing fans care so much about a fighter's zero?
     

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