if fatigue makes cowards of men is shogun the toughest fighter of all time?

paulr88 said:
Lol I'm just messing about - I like shogun
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Ha, okay. I figured but I thought there was the off chance you called me a bitch for mentioning that fight.
 
Lead Salad said:
Only Jones could make him tap and thats nothing to be ashamed of
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That never should have happened, Shogun wanted the fight stopped when he turtled up, the ref didn't stop it and Jones kneed him hard in the ribs forcing him to get back up. If the ref would have done his job it would have saved a legend having to tap( after the fight was already over.)
 
Shogun is a warrior, but I still rank Edgar and Big Nog higher in terms of toughness. Literally impossible to break their wills.
 
boss429 said:
That never should have happened, Shogun wanted the fight stopped when he turtled up, the ref didn't stop it and Jones kneed him hard in the ribs forcing him to get back up. If the ref would have done his job it would have saved a legend having to tap( after the fight was already over.)
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I thought Jones kneed Shogun, which dropped him. From there the ref called the fight and as Jones walked away Shogun tapped the floor unaware the ref stopped the fight.

I think it's hard to call any fight where the one fighter is still standing. When they go to the ground, it is much more acceptable.
 
boss429 said:
That never should have happened, Shogun wanted the fight stopped when he turtled up, the ref didn't stop it and Jones kneed him hard in the ribs forcing him to get back up. If the ref would have done his job it would have saved a legend having to tap( after the fight was already over.)
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He's a ref, not Kreskin. How the hell does a ref know what a fighter is thinking? If anything Shogun may have said to the ref before the fight, "Hey man don't stop it unless I'm dead... haha..." (through an interpreter of course) you never know, he was the champ after all and giving him every possible chance to stay in it without being murdered seems more reasonable than to err on the side of an early stoppage in a title defense
 
Unbreakabull said:
He's a ref, not Kreskin. How the hell does a ref know what a fighter is thinking? If anything Shogun may have said to the ref before the fight, "Hey man don't stop it unless I'm dead... haha..." (through an interpreter of course) you never know, he was the champ after all and giving him every possible chance to stay in it without being murdered seems more reasonable than to err on the side of an early stoppage in a title defense
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No the rules should always be the same regardless of the fighter. It
 
Lead Salad said:
I thought Jones kneed Shogun, which dropped him. From there the ref called the fight and as Jones walked away Shogun tapped the floor unaware the ref stopped the fight.

I think it's hard to call any fight where the one fighter is still standing. When they go to the ground, it is much more acceptable.
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That was after, what I'm talking about happened about 10 seconds before that, it's very obvious that he had nothing left and was just covering up for the stoppage, the knee forced him to stand back up and the rest is history.
 
Unbreakabull said:
He's a ref, not Kreskin. How the hell does a ref know what a fighter is thinking? If anything Shogun may have said to the ref before the fight, "Hey man don't stop it unless I'm dead... haha..." (through an interpreter of course) you never know, he was the champ after all and giving him every possible chance to stay in it without being murdered seems more reasonable than to err on the side of an early stoppage in a title defense
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The guy below you nailed it.
 
boss429 said:
That was after, what I'm talking about happened about 10 seconds before that, it's very obvious that he had nothing left and was just covering up for the stoppage, the knee forced him to stand back up and the rest is history.
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I guess so. With Shogun, it is hard to tell if he is gassed and trying to wait out catching his breathe when he covers up or if he is seriously hurt. Either way, I don't think the referee waiting was too excessive. Keep in mind Shogun was a favorite to a lot of people on this forum and an early stoppage couldve cause a wider shitstorm than we actually witnessed postfight.
 
Unbreakabull said:
He's a ref, not Kreskin. How the hell does a ref know what a fighter is thinking? If anything Shogun may have said to the ref before the fight, "Hey man don't stop it unless I'm dead... haha..." (through an interpreter of course) you never know, he was the champ after all and giving him every possible chance to stay in it without being murdered seems more reasonable than to err on the side of an early stoppage in a title defense
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I think to a point refs do treat fighters differently when it comes to calling it. For example, a fighter with a BJJ base getting lit up standing who is leaning against the fence is going to get called way sooner than if it was Wanderlei or Leben since they are both strikers who have taken punishment.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong but I'm fairly certain refs do it. I think Couture-Lesnar went a little longer for the same reason Shogun-Jones did.
 
Lead Salad said:
I guess so. With Shogun, it is hard to tell if he is gassed and trying to wait out catching his breathe when he covers up or if he is seriously hurt. Either way, I don't think the referee waiting was too excessive. Keep in mind Shogun was a favorite to a lot of people on this forum and an early stoppage couldve cause a wider shitstorm than we actually witnessed postfight.
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True enough, I'm just a huge fan of Shogun and it bother's me when people call him a coward for tapping (after the fight was already over), calling any pro fighter a coward is pretty ubsurd, their are very few things for Shogun haters to cling too and this seems to be there go to bullet.
 
Lead Salad said:
I thought Jones kneed Shogun, which dropped him. From there the ref called the fight and as Jones walked away Shogun tapped the floor unaware the ref stopped the fight.

I think it's hard to call any fight where the one fighter is still standing. When they go to the ground, it is much more acceptable.
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There's no shame in tapping when your opponent has defeated you. I don't know where that stupid concept got started.
 
Hanoi Rox said:
There's no shame in tapping when your opponent has defeated you. I don't know where that stupid concept got started.
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Sometimes Tapping can be viewed as a sign of good sportsmanship not as sign of a quitter. Specially when it comes to Submission locks that is well sunk in that you know it will be over anyway. I am not saying those who don't tap are not a good sport. Sometimes a break just happens right away or the fighter doing them is like that of palhares who just cranks it 200%.
 
Um, that's not how fatigue works. It's not making them scared, it's making them tired.
 
Hanoi Rox said:
There's no shame in tapping when your opponent has defeated you. I don't know where that stupid concept got started.
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I think it stems from Shogun's diehards being notoriously stubborn and delusional. That's why people like to point it out.
 
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