If everyone goes to college, won't it just be 13th-16th grade?

[Cirris]

Free College/Uni doesn't mean everyone gets to go, it doesn't work that way even in countries with free education.

The first non-white or female that gets told they're not smart enough to receive a college education under the "free for all" Bernie system will be the first one that gets a lawyer and sues for it.

 

[djacobox372]

Except for the fact our public schooling is a joke, and anyone with even a modicum of intellect finds the academic portion of it trivial.

Completely depends on the school district, there are many great public schools out there, and there are a lot of "joke" private colleges.

Adding four more grades to our public system make sense, we've done it before. Back in the early 20th century most public schools ended at 8th grade. Since most of the jobs were labor, that made sense. As the need for more educated workers went up and by 1940's all districts offered high school.

It's actually shocking to think that 70+ years have past since we've upgraded out public school system to include more grades.

 

[panamaican]

Pan, you have to also consider the utility of generating a society of heavily indebted wage-slaves. Just as it gives heavy financial benefits for home ownership, our society rewards those who take on ass-raping debt, and conversely punishes those who don't.

This benefits everybody from the central/state governments (which are more easily able to control their indentured servants) on down to the banks (which have a vastly expanded pool of debt to work with).

Heavily indebted serfs is a system of control, not a bug in the system. There's hardly a better way of smashing society under your boot than an East-Asian style meritocratic system, an obsession with educational credentialism. Keeps the peasants broken, striving for their dreamz.

Fascinating article:

https://www.academia.edu/8087611/Ed...ow_Fertility_in_East_Asia_Policy_Implications

I'm going to disagree with the IDL-like elements regarding intentional control of the peons/peasants/wage-slaves.

But the relationship between low fertility and the chase for greater and greater educational outcomes for our offspring is something that I can agree with. I don't have the links but I've read in a variety of other areas papers that argue that the high fertility rates in many nations is a survival strategy. That parents are always balancing the investment in each offspring against the chances of those offspring not reaching reproductive age.

In many modern societies, social and economic mobility are heavily tied to access to a small group of elite educational opportunities (like several East Asian nations) but chances of early child mortality are extremely low. So, it's a good strategy to invest heavily in one child possibly going to Harvard rather than giving 2+ children an equal chance of attending Iowa State.

 

[trident]

Except for the fact our public schooling is a joke, and anyone with even a modicum of intellect finds the academic portion of it trivial.

Because it is criminally under funded.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

Good thing I don't have this fucking problem. I was born too late to explore the Earth. Born too early to explore the galaxy. But I was born just in time to collect union pension well before age 50.

 

[Bukowski82]

Oh look, it's a staunch Republican making a stupid argument against higher education.

Color me shocked.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Less college, more skilled labor trade schools

 

[MadSquabbles500]

College is where you specialize learning in the field you want to be in. It's radically different in structure to high school.

And beyond that you should want a more educated America. But you are coming across as a typical conditioned American idiot, and as such fear anything that could be labelled socialism.

Everyone that goes to college doesn't get a trophy. That's not how it works.

What is a degree if not a type of trophy? Yes, there are people who drop out entirely, but I will go ahead and say the majority do come out with something to show.

 

[Execute]

Is there something wrong with having a better-educated country?

Have you seen his other threads?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I'm not even sure what you're arguing against. I agree about the effects in the marketplace. But you're not addressing what that means given the existing cost of college on the economy going forward. Keeping college expensive isn't going to change the marketplace. So, the question is "Is the country better off continuing to let it's people acquire $50k of debt for entry level skills or to make acquisition of those skills free and make it back in tax revenue?"

Does managing the Family Dollar Store really require a college degree, or is it something that Family Dollar just uses to weed people out because it gives them a convenient cut-off?

If college is too expensive, less people will attend. There will be less degree holders abound. Family Dollar Store has to expand its pool of candidates by not requiring college degree.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

serious question, since virtually all student loans were taken over by the Fed in the mid 2000s, what's the worst that could happen if they simply dissolved all Direct/Stafford Loan debt, at least for public schools as they're funded anyway by the government?

talk about a form of social welfare i'd back instantly, it would literally help thousands/millions of likely producing members of society instantly.

 

[mrln242]

And those of us who went to public high-school know how great 9-12 were, education wise!

Socialism! Everyone gets a trophy!

The one thing we have to do is keep the standards high. Everyone gets the participation trophy by going, if you want to unlock the next achievement then work for it.

College shouldn't be a walk in the park. Move away from testing, get super conceptual/ theoretical/ empirical/ practical about everything. Thats what makes kids wash out. Not the memorization, kids can do that, you challenge them to think though, watch them flip their shit.

I taught a quant class a couple semesters ago, first day of class I was like there are no tests, there are only take home assignments. They are each spread out by ten days. There are 12 total, you can not hand them in late, each one is equally weighted, and each builds off each other. There is no curve, there are no extra points. I expect you to learn the concepts as well as the empirical and the programming necessary to run the analysis. I will show you examples in class. There is one final assignment, written, you must write a full APA research report for publication, 30 plus pages. Each of you will have a research question you will answer with this dataset already up on blackboard. Make it relevant to your topic of interest. We will go through steps of a research paper in class and it will be iterative. I will give you feedback and you will rewrite it. You will hand the rewritten portion in with your new portion. During finals week you will shore up your paper, and provide me a conclusion that is no more than half a page, standard in most fields. I will only grade you on the final assignment which I have already corrected for you several times. The 12 homework assignments count for 50% of the grade, the final paper for 50% of your grade. You can come and go as you please. CONSIDER THIS YOUR JOB.

Bro, I had the fucking department head calling meetings. I was like, here is my syllabus, here is my policy, here is the assignment. It is my course, I am free to give assignments as I see fit. They are not weekly and align to the breakdown of how long I need to teach them the material of the chapters of interest, the coding of the three dominant programming, and the interpretation of the output. If you need anymore questions answered I request an official hearing at this point.

I caused a heap of shit and the kicker...THESE WERE MASTERS STUDENTS!!! Fuck my life!

 

[BVG]

What is a degree if not a type of trophy? Yes, there are people who drop out entirely, but I will go ahead and say the majority do come out with something to show.

You shouldn't be scared of a more educated America....


It helps with innovation...

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I cant believe people are actually arguing against education...

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

I cant believe people are actually arguing against education...

They talked about this yesterday on CNN and the numbers just aren't feasible. The cost is too high for Sanders' plan and everyone's retirement plans will take a hit. 401Ks, IRAs, etc.. and even then, it won't get nearly enough money to do as stated.

 

[panamaican]

Does managing the Family Dollar Store really require a college degree, or is it something that Family Dollar just uses to weed people out because it gives them a convenient cut-off?

If college is too expensive, less people will attend. There will be less degree holders abound. Family Dollar Store has to expand its pool of candidates by not requiring college degree.

People say that Family Dollar will have to expand it's pool of candidates, which I would agree with if there wasn't a technological variable affecting the low end supply of jobs. On one hand, managing a Family Dollar doesn't require a college degree. But if someone doesn't have a degree then they're going to need experience. The thing that is getting overlooked is that the ability to get that experience is shrinking. 15 years ago, Family Dollar might have had 20 cashiers working a regular basis and could pull from that grouping to hire a manager. But thanks to changes in technology, a modern Family Dollar probably has half the cashier staff that it used to. That changes the labor pool in 2 ways. First, the amount of people getting cashier experience as a lead in to manager is smaller than before. Second, the competition for that experience is going to get tougher - more people, fewer jobs. So people will always be looking for an advantage in the marketplace. If you and I both want the same cashier job and you have a college degree and I don't then you have a better chance of getting that job. That's not a factor of the cost of college or a factor of Family Dollar being pickier, it's a factor of there being only half as many jobs as before.

I simply find the argument that if less people went to college, the job marketplace would stop putting pressure on people to have college degrees to be a fallacious one. It's premised on the idea that the marketplace wants people with college degrees because of the overabundance of degreed people. Whereas, the truth is that the elimination of low skilled work has driven people to seek degrees in an attempt to compete for the remaining jobs. When the local factory is cutting 40% of it's workforce, people with degrees have an advantage in not being part of that 40%. That puts pressure on people to be more credentialed than the other guy in the hope that their credentials will allow them to keep/find employment than the less credentialed. When the choice is between $50k of debt or being unemployed, the debt seems a safe risk. And this isn't a recent phenomenon or even a local one. It's only become more exaggerated as the speed of technological innovation and outsourcing reduces the amount of low skill job opportunities in our economy.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

They talked about this yesterday on CNN and the numbers just aren't feasible. The cost is too high for Sanders' plan and everyone's retirement plans will take a hit. 401Ks, IRAs, etc.. and even then, it won't get nearly enough money to do as stated.

LOL and you believe that bullzhit?

The US could cut its defense budget by 20%, still spend more than the next 10 nations combined and provide free college for everyone.

How do you think countries with much smaller GDPS are able to provide free college not only for secondary students but also for returning adults?

Do you want to live in a country that invents and create things or one where 80% of the people work at Mcdonalds and Walmart?

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

LOL and you believe that bullzhit?

The US could cut its defense budget by 20%, still spend more than the next 10 nations combined and provide free college for everyone.

How do you think countries with much smaller GDPS are able to provide free college not only for secondary students but also for returning adults?

Do you want to live in a country that invents and create things or one where 80% of the people work at Mcdonalds and Walmart?

College doesn't guarantee you a life of not working at McDonalds and Walmart anymore and every year, it gets worse. It's already been discussed as a separate issue in another thread. Computers, automization, and robots are replacing people in various sectors of society. As someone already stated, even the once bullet proof STEM degree isn't so bullet proof anymore.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Computers, automization, and robots are replacing people in various sectors of society.

And which countries would be at the forefront of this? Countries which provide free tertiary education for those who qualify or countries which dont?

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

And which countries would be at the forefront of this? Countries which provide free tertiary education for those who qualify or countries which dont?

I don't know, but it' something that will affect every country. Western countries first. I think the Swiss had already thought about this and is dabbling on universal basic income.