If early UFC events had more diverse competition, mma would look very different.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by ReasonableMMAFan, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    If more high level Kickboxers, boxers, Catch wrestlers, Olympic wrestlers, Shooto guys, Judokas, etc... had been invited instead of sumos and McDojo blackbelts we would have had very different results. Bjj would have never been brought to the top and the UFC would of most likely been sold/went defunct.
     
  2. Kyler Ruxin

    Kyler Ruxin The Gangstalicious of Sherdog

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    I don't know man, that sounds like a shit load of fun to watch. High level practitioners from all those different backgrounds. If anything, the sport might have been legitimized sooner.
     
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  3. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    Maybe. Unfortunately that era is gone now, so we'll never be able to see that type of competition again.

    But more to the original point, Gracie JJ would have never been popularized and modern day mma would look very different because of it.
     
  4. basementdweller

    basementdweller Black Belt

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    if BJJ had a fighter representing it, the results would be similar. BJJ always finds a way against a fighter unskilled on sub defense.
     
  5. Kyler Ruxin

    Kyler Ruxin The Gangstalicious of Sherdog

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    Yea I agree with this. A great kick boxer, boxer, muay-thai guy or whatever other great stand up style, is still going to get taken down and owned if they have no ground game. The chance for the early knockout is there obviously, but as soon as that fight hits the mat, they become a fish out of water.
     
  6. Fahcough

    Fahcough Red Belt

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    If Jimmerson would have KO'd Royce, would there still be this UFC
     
  7. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    BJJ fighters have been defeated by non grapplers before. And I think the great Helio Gracie himself once got beat up in a street fight before. This isn't to knock the Gracies or BJJ, but that style of fighting isn't invulnerable and has been defeated many times in the past.
     
  8. Rondas Pillow

    Rondas Pillow Black Belt

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    Even early wrestlers had problems. They could get people down and control them, but they didn't know how to end the fight.
     
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  9. Rondas Pillow

    Rondas Pillow Black Belt

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    For all the stupid things people on here talk about here a fighter being in someone's head - Royce really was in Jimmerson's head. He was so worried that his arm would be broken.
     
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  10. legatoblues

    legatoblues Green Belt

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    This.

    Even for approx the first 10 events, nearly every fight went exactly the same no matter who was fighting or what their skillset was. They would begin attacking from the outside, keep walking forward, clinch and eventually end up on the ground, where the fight would stay in whatever position it was when they landed.

    That was the biggest thing I took away from going back to watch the very beginnings - even in striker vs striker matchups, it appeared as if they had no understanding of the concept of 'distance' and didn't understand the importance of trying to hold an advantageous position (say, distance for a fighter with reach) or advance to another (ending up on the ground and just punching whatever was in front of them, rather than trying to get the head in range).
     
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  11. Rum

    Rum Champion of Champions

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    Nah, you've got it backwards kid, the UFC's success wasn't built on BJJ, it was the other way round. The UFC's success was was built on the god old Bloodsport/Kumite spectacle of fighters from different styles fighting "for real".

    Besides, Royce was far from the best BJJ guy at the time too, and even high-level wrestlers, kickboxers etc who've taken up MMA have recognized the value of BJJ-style fighting when they've come to MMA. Alistair Overeem and Mark Hunt are K1 champions and both have studied a bunch of BJJ. Hunt in particular struggled mightily until he began to take the submission game seriously. Olympic wrestler DC has studied his share of BJJ, especially after seeing what Werdum did to his wrestler buddy Cain. Holly Holm was a boxing world champion and she lost her belt to BJJ.

    Only a noob fool could follow this sport and fail to recognize the legitimacy of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
     
  12. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    Reread my posts. I never tried to discredit Gracie JJ and never did I say that the UFC was made on bjj. I just said that the UFC/MMA would look very different if more high level competition were invited instead of who was.
     
  13. Very different results??? Here's one example: Olympic Gold Medalist wrestler Kevin Jackson got beat in 16 seconds by Frank Shamrock. This was not a fluke. Do you need a higher level than that?
     
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  14. Rum

    Rum Champion of Champions

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    Reread your own posts goofus. Your claim was that BJJ "would have never been brought to the top" if there were Olympic wrestlers and high level kickboxers in early UFCs.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, we've seen Olympic gold medalist wrestlers and World Champion kickboxers learn the hard way that tangling with high-level BJJ before you have any knowledge of it is a fool's game.
     
  15. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    Frank Shamrock did not compete in the very early style vs style UFC events. He was already a complete martial artist, going up against a one dimensional fighter.
     
  16. ReasonableMMAFan

    ReasonableMMAFan Banned Banned

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    How is that contradictory to what I said? It's true that if more high level competition was involved with the early UFC, GJJ would have mostly likely never made it to the top and therefore would not have evolved fighting the way it did.
     
  17. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

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    We`ve also seen guys with little to no formal martial arts training either give those early BJJ all they could handle (Kimo vs Royce) and even defeat them on occasion as was the case with Paul Varelans and Joe Moreira.
     
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  18. FastTracker

    FastTracker Brown Belt

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    well, high level boxers/kickboxers didn't want to join the ufc, maybe it was because of money,maybe because they didn't want to get embarrased by some average joe with a black belt in something they didn't event know that existed. But yeah,ufc will be a whole different thing if ,lets say, someone like Aerts or Hoost fought in that tournament
     
  19. Rum

    Rum Champion of Champions

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    In 2002 Semmy Schilt was one of the best kickboxers on the planet, ending the legendary Ernesto Hoost's 12-win streak (which included victories over Hunt, Sefo and Cro Cop).

    Semmy also lost two MMA fights in a row to submissions at that time.

    Mark Hunt, K1 world champion kickboxer, went on a 6-loss streak in MMA which included 5 submissions.

    Doesn't matter how high level you are in kickboxing, if your BJJ isn't on point and you hit the deck with a high level BJJ guy you're toast.
     
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  20. kumitechamp

    kumitechamp Green Belt

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    I think floyd mayweather murks any version or royce that ever existed. Of course top boxers didnt compete in some freakshow event for little to no money so there was no worry of that.
     

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