If Conor wins has to be in the top 5 GOAT

Do Conor huggers enjoy public humiliation? Were they born without the gene that enables one to feel embarrassed? Why do they make these threads?
 
If Conor beats Dustin he will have a .500 record at weights above FW versus the Top 5 - nothing GOAT in that accomplishment
 
Jeffrey Moore said:
No, we aren't discrediting his accomplishments, we are just saying absolutely no one was gifted the path he was. No one ever. Your refusal to even admit that just shows how bias you are in his defense. Did you just compare Northcutt to Conor? Wow. And you actually are giving more credit to Conor than Cejudo, which I am not sure I have ever heard anyone with half a brain do. The guy beats MM, defends against an EPO stud. Then wins a belt up a weight, and defends that. But sure, Conor beating Alvarez, a guy who has won 1 out of his last 7 since then, because he couldn't make 145, not because he was going up as a "challenge for himself" as you so claim, is more impressive. Avoids defending at 45, and then bails on defending at 55. Man its ok to like Conor, think his accomplishments are great, but also agree they are completely overblown, and that he has regressed back to the mean that he likely always was at 155.

And you have fallen right into his trap. "Other fighters don't take the risks he takes.." He never defended. So already, almost every single champion has taken a risk he hasn't. Going up a weight to challenge the champ (and I will remind you for the 10th time, this was not a risk because he straight out couldn't make 145 anymore) is so much less risky than defending the belt at 145 and risking his legacy. A loss to Aldo stops the train in its tracks. A loss to Alvarez and its like "eh good for him he tried." Izzy JUST proved that. No one seems to care about him going up and getting handled by Jan. An additional defense back at 85 and he's a legend again.
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You are bias. I don't care about any of them and I'm just calling it as it is. You can't credit Cejudo's 2 division win and compare it with Conor's because of the simple fact the title was stripped and they fought for a vacant title. He didn't beat a champion to do it. Yes he beat TJ, but a TJ who cut down to 125 for the first time ever. Lots of variables on that. Yes, Cejudo is a 2 division champ but it isn't on the same level of the other 2 division champs that beat active defending champions.

Lots of fighters get fast tracked, some fighters are able to pull it off and others aren't. Yes Northcutt tried to get fastracked and got derailed early, same as Suga. Conor and Adesanya got fast tracked and was able to pull it off. Interest in fighters is what determines the fast track. Don't hate the player hate the game. Fighters want to get fast tracked? Have them gain some interest and hype and the same will happen to them. Like I said before fighters/fans hate on Conor but they also don't take the same risks he does, even if given the same opportunities. That's why he got fast tracked, and why he got to the level he did. Also the reason why he is the highest paid mma fighter. Fighters should study more than just his trash talk/fashion style and study his actions as well if they want to try and replicate his career trajectory.
 
Ghostoftheville said:
So you're honestly more impressed that GSP came back to beat Bisping who's been ridiculed as the weakest middleweight champion ever (i disagree), than his multiple title defenses over several years against several contenders in the p4p rankings?

Also, Dan Henderson did it before Conor f
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GSP also has a long title defense streak, but even with that GSP knew he needed to be a 2 division champ on top of that because he understands the difficulty level of being a champion in more than 1 division. There is a reason why Jones is taking over a year before fighting in HW. He is taking over a year to prepare for a fight compared to just a couple of weeks fight camp if he were to stay in his weight class. Extra preparation is needed to fight bigger fighters and extra difficulty level. Just Jones taking as long as he is before moving up to challenge the champion just shows you how much harder it is compared to just fighting a contender in LHW where Jones would fight and win by barely even training and partying the whole time.

Most fighters don't like fighting people bigger than them, that's why there are such extreme weight cuts because fighters do everything they can to not fight someone bigger.
 
Its Conman MookGregor season again, nuthuggers will be out in droves
 
No Skill Gap said:
Sorry but I'm not ranking fucking Wand over McGregor because he happened to fight in Pride. McGregor's legacy is pretty fucking top tier even despite the zero defenses. To put him out of the top 20 entirely is so fucking sus. It's going to be a bunch of Pride boner guys who don't deserve to be there over him, guaranteed.
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Maybe instead of posting on Sherdog everyday, you should actually learn the history of the sport before parading your ignorance in front of everyone. I get it, you are a teenager who started watching the sport when Conor showed up, but believe it or not there was MMA before hand as well. Reel your neck in.

Conor's "legacy" is a handful of top wins, and an extremely medicore record at his real weight class.

His top wins are:
Aldo
Eddie
Mendes (on two weeks)
Dustin
If we are being generous, Holloway despite him being a nobody then. But the win aged well.

That is 5 top wins. Wopade-fucking-do. You can masterbate all you want to him going up in weight, the guy did a fucking holocaust weight cut to FW. His real class is LW. Fighting washed up fighters at WW just because you don't feel like cutting weight is not an accomplishment.

As for "fucking Wand", you again show what a casual you are.
Wand has top wins over:
Rampage x2
Arona
Hendo
Sakuraba x3
If we are being generous, Bisping but Wand was pretty washed then.

And a lot more top20-ish guys than Conor, and actually fought relevant guys at HW. He also fought FAR more names during his relevant run than Colon did.
 
TR1 said:
Maybe instead of posting on Sherdog everyday, you should actually learn the history of the sport before parading your ignorance in front of everyone. I get it, you are a teenager who started watching the sport when Conor showed up, but believe it or not there was MMA before hand as well. Reel your neck in.

Conor's "legacy" is a handful of top wins, and an extremely medicore record at his real weight class.

His top wins are:
Aldo
Eddie
Mendes (on two weeks)
Dustin
If we are being generous, Holloway despite him being a nobody then. But the win aged well.

That is 5 top wins. Wopade-fucking-do. You can masterbate all you want to him going up in weight, the guy did a fucking holocaust weight cut to FW. His real class is LW. Fighting washed up fighters at WW just because you don't feel like cutting weight is not an accomplishment.

As for "fucking Wand", you again show what a casual you are.
Wand has top wins over:
Rampage x2
Arona
Hendo
Sakuraba x3
If we are being generous, Bisping but Wand was pretty washed then.

And a lot more top20-ish guys than Conor, and actually fought relevant guys at HW. He also fought FAR more names during his relevant run than Colon did.
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I guarantee I started watching MMA before you, eat a cock I ain't reading your autism wall. Continue to be irrational and emotional pussy
 
Jeffrey Moore said:
No, we aren't discrediting his accomplishments, we are just saying absolutely no one was gifted the path he was. No one ever. Your refusal to even admit that just shows how bias you are in his defense. Did you just compare Northcutt to Conor? Wow. And you actually are giving more credit to Conor than Cejudo, which I am not sure I have ever heard anyone with half a brain do. The guy beats MM, defends against an EPO stud. Then wins a belt up a weight, and defends that. But sure, Conor beating Alvarez, a guy who has won 1 out of his last 7 since then, because he couldn't make 145, not because he was going up as a "challenge for himself" as you so claim, is more impressive. Avoids defending at 45, and then bails on defending at 55. Man its ok to like Conor, think his accomplishments are great, but also agree they are completely overblown, and that he has regressed back to the mean that he likely always was at 155.
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FIghtxIQ said:
You are bias. I don't care about any of them and I'm just calling it as it is. You can't credit Cejudo's 2 division win and compare it with Conor's because of the simple fact the title was stripped and they fought for a vacant title. He didn't beat a champion to do it. Yes he beat TJ, but a TJ who cut down to 125 for the first time ever. Lots of variables on that. Yes, Cejudo is a 2 division champ but it isn't on the same level of the other 2 division champs that beat active defending champions.

Lots of fighters get fast tracked, some fighters are able to pull it off and others aren't. Yes Northcutt tried to get fastracked and got derailed early, same as Suga. Conor and Adesanya got fast tracked and was able to pull it off. Interest in fighters is what determines the fast track. Don't hate the player hate the game. Fighters want to get fast tracked? Have them gain some interest and hype and the same will happen to them. Like I said before fighters/fans hate on Conor but they also don't take the same risks he does, even if given the same opportunities. That's why he got fast tracked, and why he got to the level he did. Also the reason why he is the highest paid mma fighter. Fighters should study more than just his trash talk/fashion style and study his actions as well if they want to try and replicate his career trajectory.
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Good work avoiding my two main points, that he had to move up to 155 due to weight issues, and that going up out of no choice and fighting the champ is way less risky than actually defending a single belt. Nice discourse
 
FIghtxIQ said:
GSP also has a long title defense streak, but even with that GSP knew he needed to be a 2 division champ on top of that because he understands the difficulty level of being a champion in more than 1 division. There is a reason why Jones is taking over a year before fighting in HW. He is taking over a year to prepare for a fight compared to just a couple of weeks fight camp if he were to stay in his weight class. Extra preparation is needed to fight bigger fighters and extra difficulty level. Just Jones taking as long as he is before moving up to challenge the champion just shows you how much harder it is compared to just fighting a contender in LHW where Jones would fight and win by barely even training and partying the whole time.

Most fighters don't like fighting people bigger than them, that's why there are such extreme weight cuts because fighters do everything they can to not fight someone bigger.
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And that's why Frankie Edgar is so amazing, winning a world tittle not one but two weight classes above his in modern UFC.

Not sure if Flyweight champ Fig cut much more weight to face Benavides or Moreno than Edgar did to fight 180-190lbers Ben Henderson or Gray Maynard
 
Jeffrey Moore said:
Good work avoiding my two main points, that he had to move up to 155 due to weight issues, and that going up out of no choice and fighting the champ is way less risky than actually defending a single belt. Nice discourse
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I didn't avoid anything I know the IV issue that forced him out of FW. That doesn't change the fact he won the LW belt. Many champions defended belts, less champions are champions in more than 1 division. Check the numbers, that tells you what is harder to do. Like I said before, if it was so easy everyone would be doing it. Yet there are few that succeeded, and even less willing to attempt it.
 
FIghtxIQ said:
I didn't avoid anything I know the IV issue that forced him out of FW. That doesn't change the fact he won the LW belt. Many champions defended belts, less champions are champions in more than 1 division. Check the numbers, that tells you what is harder to do. Like I said before, if it was so easy everyone would be doing it. Yet there are few that succeeded, and even less willing to attempt it.
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And my initial point in all of this is that it is watered down because he never defended either belt. And its not a “unique and GOAT worthy” feat because no one else has been granted the opportunity to do what he did without defending multiple times. So you can’t compare it because he’s the only one in history GIFTED that opportunity. And the weight issue furthers my point. No one else has gone up to challenge at the next weight class up because they couldn’t make their current weight. Again it’s an impressive feat, but it is very much diminished by all the other factors I’ve stated.

And you say if it was easy, many others would do it. I guarantee you every single champ in history, if they couldn't maintain the weight they were currently at, would love for their next fight to be for the belt above. You think anyone in their right mind would say "nah let me take a warm up fight at the next weight." Heck no. But the bald goof wouldn't gift them that opportunity like he did Conor. Conor earned it by being the showman and salesman that he is. So I guess he's the GOAT in that sense.

and just because it’s unique does not make it more impressive. Defending your belt several times against killers at your weight is much more impressive than just hopping up because you can’t make the weight anymore and being gifted a fight against a weak champ and winning. And then not defending it. And then losing it the first chance you get. It appears you do not agree with me on that, which is fine I suppose, and probably why we have gotten nowhere in this discussion

I actually used to love Conor. But I’m also nuanced enough to know that his double champ thing is not nearly the feat he makes it out to be. And that there are several other feats he avoided that others have embraced
 
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Jeffrey Moore said:
And my initial point in all of this is that it is watered down because he never defended either belt. And its not a “unique and GOAT worthy” feat because no one else has been granted the opportunity to do what he did without defending multiple times. So you can’t compare it because he’s the only one in history GIFTED that opportunity. And the weight issue furthers my point. No one else has gone up to challenge at the next weight class up because they couldn’t make their current weight. Again it’s an impressive feat, but it is very much diminished by all the other factors I’ve stated.

And you say if it was easy, many others would do it. I guarantee you every single champ in history, if they couldn't maintain the weight they were currently at, would love for their next fight to be for the belt above. You think anyone in their right mind would say "nah let me take a warm up fight at the next weight." Heck no. But the bald goof wouldn't gift them that opportunity like he did Conor. Conor earned it by being the showman and salesman that he is. So I guess he's the GOAT in that sense.

and just because it’s unique does not make it more impressive. Defending your belt several times against killers at your weight is much more impressive than just hopping up because you can’t make the weight anymore and being gifted a fight against a weak champ and winning. And then not defending it. And then losing it the first chance you get. It appears you do not agree with me on that, which is fine I suppose, and probably why we have gotten nowhere in this discussion

I actually used to love Conor. But I’m also nuanced enough to know that his double champ thing is not nearly the feat he makes it out to be. And that there are several other feats he avoided that others have embraced
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I understand your point, I'm not arguing he got an easier road to title contention. But that doesn't matter if he doesn't win. He still has to win. The champion is going to be better than title contenders, so beating the champion let's you skip that in terms or earning it. Title defenses can be very similar to win streaks in the division, since you are fighting fighters in the top 10 who can be title contenders as well. Only difference is you do it after winning the belt and it is a great achievement with the fighters that has long title defenses. I'm not arguing against that. I'm just arguing getting belts in more than 1 division is also a great achievement and hard to do. Most champions will not risk it and that's why they stay in their division. You keep saying fighters would take the same risk if they could, many can and many don't. Like right now people are still making bets if Jones is actually going to move up to HW to challenge for the belt. Many champions had the option to challenge for the belt in other divisions as well, not many actually wanted to take the risk.
 
FIghtxIQ said:
I understand your point, I'm not arguing he got an easier road to title contention. But that doesn't matter if he doesn't win. He still has to win. The champion is going to be better than title contenders, so beating the champion let's you skip that in terms or earning it. Title defenses can be very similar to win streaks in the division, since you are fighting fighters in the top 10 who can be title contenders as well. Only difference is you do it after winning the belt and it is a great achievement with the fighters that has long title defenses. I'm not arguing against that. I'm just arguing getting belts in more than 1 division is also a great achievement and hard to do. Most champions will not risk it and that's why they stay in their division. You keep saying fighters would take the same risk if they could, many can and many don't. Like right now people are still making bets if Jones is actually going to move up to HW to challenge for the belt. Many champions had the option to challenge for the belt in other divisions as well, not many actually wanted to take the risk.
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That is true. And it does indicate that Conor was more aggressive for sure in that regards. I think it goes to show his understanding of showmanship and $ value. He was a pioneer in that regards. And yes he won. And in spectacular fashion over Eddie. So he does get that credit. I just think he found the path of least resistance to this special champ champ thing, and if you really break it down, it is far less impressive than many make it out to be. And that he actually couldn't have defended his belt(s). Although we will never know this. And that is why Conor is so genius. He played the game perfectly. Until now. And he is getting exposed. I always said he never should have come back after the Mayweather fight, because his stock would never be higher. But that would have meant less pay days for him so I get it. In the end, I think the world will remember Conor for who he was. A unique fighter who had an un-paralleled rise to greatness. The greatest showman in the UFC. But one whos mouth and mystique far out weighed his skill level. And that the rest of the UFC caught up to and somewhat exposed him for being the top 5-10 only guy at his proper weight class. Cheers
 
Jeffrey Moore said:
That is true. And it does indicate that Conor was more aggressive for sure in that regards. I think it goes to show his understanding of showmanship and $ value. He was a pioneer in that regards. And yes he won. And in spectacular fashion over Eddie. So he does get that credit. I just think he found the path of least resistance to this special champ champ thing, and if you really break it down, it is far less impressive than many make it out to be. And that he actually couldn't have defended his belt(s). Although we will never know this. And that is why Conor is so genius. He played the game perfectly. Until now. And he is getting exposed. I always said he never should have come back after the Mayweather fight, because his stock would never be higher. But that would have meant less pay days for him so I get it. In the end, I think the world will remember Conor for who he was. A unique fighter who had an un-paralleled rise to greatness. The greatest showman in the UFC. But one whos mouth and mystique far out weighed his skill level. And that the rest of the UFC caught up to and somewhat exposed him for being the top 5-10 only guy at his proper weight class. Cheers
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I agree with what you are saying but Conor's story isn't over yet. If he is able to win the Trilogy and some how win the the LW belt again he can go out on top. That's a big IF though, if he succeeds people will overlook his losses in the long run and his career will be viewed in higher regard. Losses will be thought of as unmotivated Conor or something to that regard. He does have to win though, so a lot is riding on the trilogy fight for Conor's career. I don't see him continuing on after sustaining a losing streak and having to climb up the ranks again.
 
TR1 said:
Maybe instead of posting on Sherdog everyday, you should actually learn the history of the sport before parading your ignorance in front of everyone. I get it, you are a teenager who started watching the sport when Conor showed up, but believe it or not there was MMA before hand as well. Reel your neck in.

Conor's "legacy" is a handful of top wins, and an extremely medicore record at his real weight class.

His top wins are:
Aldo
Eddie
Mendes (on two weeks)
Dustin
If we are being generous, Holloway despite him being a nobody then. But the win aged well.

That is 5 top wins. Wopade-fucking-do. You can masterbate all you want to him going up in weight, the guy did a fucking holocaust weight cut to FW. His real class is LW. Fighting washed up fighters at WW just because you don't feel like cutting weight is not an accomplishment.

As for "fucking Wand", you again show what a casual you are.
Wand has top wins over:
Rampage x2
Arona
Hendo
Sakuraba x3
If we are being generous, Bisping but Wand was pretty washed then.

And a lot more top20-ish guys than Conor, and actually fought relevant guys at HW. He also fought FAR more names during his relevant run than Colon did.
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Lol. This escalated quickly.

He explained himself earlier in the thread. I don't agree with him but he was articulate and far from being an ass about it. Got damn man, lol.
 
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