If Conor beats Nate and Hendo beats Bisping, there's a fight to make

$uicideboy$ said:
you best believe, if hendo ever did anything half as sloppy as this against conor, conor would literally flatline him.

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Conor has KO'd exactly 5 fighters in his career, the rest of them have been TKOs. And those were against FWs and LWs. But he's going to KO a guy that has fought at MW, LHW, and HW and been beaten by strikes a total of 3 times over his entire career span? I think you may be overestimating the man's power in his hands just slightly. :rolleyes:
 
Sgt Smith said:
Okay, I'll bite. Is Conor just going to back peddle for 5 rounds and win? He's faster, but he's going to have to engage Dan to land any shot. He's the much smaller man and that is the only way he's going to do so. This is not FW where he can use his length and not be at risk. His style leads to him dropping his hands and being hit and relying on his chin. Dan touches his chin one time and Conor's lights are turned off. That's a lot of opportunity in a 5 rounder.

Not to mention it leaves him open to being taken down. Dan gets a hold of Conor and he's going to the mat. If he does, he's not getting up no matter how hard he tries. He's also not surviving that kind of GnP. Conor is not some elusive guy that fights from the outside and wins 5 round decisions. The likelihood of it against even a diminished Dan is almost nil. Speculating can be fun, but this is ridiculous if you're even somewhat rational.

This is why people are not responding or even making an argument. But by all means keep up your charade if it suits your fancy.
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When does Conor ever not engage? Whether he's going forwards or backwards, leading or countering, he's always fighting. He'll engage Dan, avoid his power, and his superior striking will show. And I believe he has the power to KO Dan. Part of the reason Nate didn't get KO'd is because he was always beyond the range of McGregor's punches, partly because of the reach and partly because Nate was going backwards the whole fight. I don't see Dan doing that. Having said that, I didn't expect Nate to do that before the first fight. Anyway, as you might have heard, precision beats power. Conor couldn't land with precision against Nate because of his range and backwards movement. Dan doesn't have Nate's skills or his range or his speed.

Conor isn't the much smaller man. He's a bit shorter and 20-25 lbs lighter. Don't overrate the importance of weight classes. Don't get me wrong, they're advantages, but they're just 2 things in Dan's favor as part of a complicated style matchup. To use an math analogy, don't treat a size advantage as a multiplier to the variables; just add it up with the other variables. Conor will have a size advantage too in the form of his length. They have the same reach, but Conor has a kicking game and fights longer.

Conor does get hit, but he's not an idiot. He's willing to take a shot to give a shot. You think that means he's willing to eat flush H-Bombs? Stylistically, Hendo is closest to Mendes of all fighters Conor's faced. The big differences are firstly the size, and secondly the fact that Hendo is more likely to stand and just try and take Conor's head off, whereas Mendes' strategy was focused on shooting in and getting takedowns for GNP. The reason Conor had to eat some overhands against Chad is because he was worried about the takedowns. Against Dan, I don't think he has to worry as much about that. Another important thing is Conor's footwork. Against Chad, he was flat-footed, as he walked him down and looked to bully him. Against Dan, he'll be light on his feet, look to use his speed, and probably counter as Dan comes in. You're overstating Hendo's power. It isn't as simple as "touches his chin one time and lights off". Obviously Dan is a huge KO threat. But not every shot is a H-Bomb... wait... or is it? That isn't a good thing. Shuffle shuffle H-Bomb. Hendo has to be one of the least diverse strikers at the high levels of the sport. If the fight stays on the feet, it isn't going 5 rounds. I don't see it going past 1. And I favor Conor heavily if we're talking first round knockouts. Conor and Dan aren't close in striking ability. I'm personally much more worried about Dan deciding to take Conor down...

I agree that Conor could be in trouble if Hendo goes for takedowns. It's where his weight advantage will really come into play. The thing is, Dan hasn't shown himself to be much of a takedown artist in MMA in recent years. I'd be curious how his 46-year-old gas tank holds up if he has to grapple, too. Going along with what I believe Conor's gameplan would be earlier, Dan will probably have to find a way to get inside and take Conor down. He won't be pressed up against the cage opposite flat-footed bully McGregor like Mendes and Siver were. I think the speed difference would become evident if Hendo looked to shoot on Conor. I really think he'll have trouble getting close to him.

You presented the case for why you think Hendo would beat Conor. But this is where my point about being "wrong" and being "so wrong that one must be crazy" are 2 different things. You didn't make such a strong case that anyone who disagrees must be crazy. You weren't laying down fact after fact about how there's NO WAY Conor can win. Hendo has a weight advantage. Hendo has a big right hand. Hendo might try and take Conor down. That was pretty much it. Honestly, it only seems like you've presented a case that I'm "wrong". Any suggestion that I simply must be crazy would be hyperbole, and if you were honest you'd admit that.
 
johncola said:
When does Conor ever not engage? Whether he's going forwards or backwards, leading or countering, he's always fighting. He'll engage Dan, avoid his power, and his superior striking will show. And I believe he has the power to KO Dan. Part of the reason Nate didn't get KO'd is because he was always beyond the range of McGregor's punches, partly because of the reach and partly because Nate was going backwards the whole fight. I don't see Dan doing that. Having said that, I didn't expect Nate to do that before the first fight. Anyway, as you might have heard, precision beats power. Conor couldn't land with precision against Nate because of his range and backwards movement. Dan doesn't have Nate's skills or his range or his speed.

Conor isn't the much smaller man. He's a bit shorter and 20-25 lbs lighter. Don't overrate the importance of weight classes. Don't get me wrong, they're advantages, but they're just 2 things in Dan's favor as part of a complicated style matchup. To use an math analogy, don't treat a size advantage as a multiplier to the variables; just add it up with the other variables. Conor will have a size advantage too in the form of his length. They have the same reach, but Conor has a kicking game and fights longer.

Conor does get hit, but he's not an idiot. He's willing to take a shot to give a shot. You think that means he's willing to eat flush H-Bombs? Stylistically, Hendo is closest to Mendes of all fighters Conor's faced. The big differences are firstly the size, and secondly the fact that Hendo is more likely to stand and just try and take Conor's head off, whereas Mendes' strategy was focused on shooting in and getting takedowns for GNP. The reason Conor had to eat some overhands against Chad is because he was worried about the takedowns. Against Dan, I don't think he has to worry as much about that. Another important thing is Conor's footwork. Against Chad, he was flat-footed, as he walked him down and looked to bully him. Against Dan, he'll be light on his feet, look to use his speed, and probably counter as Dan comes in. You're overstating Hendo's power. It isn't as simple as "touches his chin one time and lights off". Obviously Dan is a huge KO threat. But not every shot is a H-Bomb... wait... or is it? That isn't a good thing. Shuffle shuffle H-Bomb. Hendo has to be one of the least diverse strikers at the high levels of the sport. If the fight stays on the feet, it isn't going 5 rounds. I don't see it going past 1. And I favor Conor heavily if we're talking first round knockouts. Conor and Dan aren't close in striking ability. I'm personally much more worried about Dan deciding to take Conor down...

I agree that Conor could be in trouble if Hendo goes for takedowns. It's where his weight advantage will really come into play. The thing is, Dan hasn't shown himself to be much of a takedown artist in MMA in recent years. I'd be curious how his 46-year-old gas tank holds up if he has to grapple, too. Going along with what I believe Conor's gameplan would be earlier, Dan will probably have to find a way to get inside and take Conor down. He won't be pressed up against the cage opposite flat-footed bully McGregor like Mendes and Siver were. I think the speed difference would become evident if Hendo looked to shoot on Conor. I really think he'll have trouble getting close to him.

You presented the case for why you think Hendo would beat Conor. But this is where my point about being "wrong" and being "so wrong that one must be crazy" are 2 different things. You didn't make such a strong case that anyone who disagrees must be crazy. You weren't laying down fact after fact about how there's NO WAY Conor can win. Hendo has a weight advantage. Hendo has a big right hand. Hendo might try and take Conor down. That was pretty much it. Honestly, it only seems like you've presented a case that I'm "wrong". Any suggestion that I simply must be crazy would be hyperbole, and if you were honest you'd admit that.
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I see you're dedicated to this, but there's far too much speculation. I'm not certain why you are estimating Conor to have as much power in his hands as you do. There is nothing about his past fights that should allow you to extrapolate that he'd be able to KO Dan in one round. That's not going to happen. We are talking about a guy who is legendary for his chin. Conor was rocked by a combo from Nate, who is a great boxer, but not known to sit down on his punches. Conor would need to avoid every shot Dan throws, and he'd bully him into the cage by being the much stronger man and test his chin. It would not go well.
 
johncola said:
Yes. I think you might even have a learning disability (I'm not being rude or trying to belittle you). You started this exchange by saying my post was dumb. Now you're implying it's impossible to identify a person's intelligence over the Internet.
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Your brain my not be able to comprehend this, but really i dont give a fuck. this is sherdog. Not an intelligence contest.
One more time, its fucking sherdog.
Really...you thinking im not as intellectually brilliant as you are is hilarious. I could give two shits if you died right after reading this post.

Posting on sherdog, is not that serious. But i guess you think it is...being that sherdog is an "intellectual" forum....lol....keep posting!
 
Davemeddlehed said:
Because it isn't even worth listing the obvious when it's clear that you're just trolling. And make no mistake, there is plenty that is obviously wrong with what you're claiming.
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People tried. They did list "the obvious". And it turned out I already knew "the obvious". Yet, I disagreed with them. Maybe I knew more, as well as just "the obvious"?.

In arguments where one person is right and another is wrong, the person who's right often knows the wrong person's position fully. The right person empathizes, to see where the wrong person is coming from. They've already considered what the wrong person has considered, and know more information on top of that, hence the disagreement.

The wrong person, on the other hand, will be somewhat in the dark. Like the right person, they might try to empathize. But they won't be successful. There will be gaps. They won't fully understand where the right person's coming from. We all like to be the right person. It's better to be right than wrong. That's why the wrong person will instinctively try to write off those aforementioned gaps. They don't see where that person's coming from, but they'll write it off as being not because they themselves know less, but because the other person is crazy/weird/warped/whatever. That's what people convince themselves of. But here's how to tell the difference between a person who's correct and a person who's crazy: The person who's correct, like I said, will know where you're coming from; the person who's crazy will be just as in the dark as you are. I'm not in the dark. Can you say the same?
 
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johncola said:
People tried. They did list "the obvious". And it turned out I already knew "the obvious". Yet, I disagreed with them. Maybe I knew more, as well as just "the obvious"?.

In arguments where one person is right and another is wrong, the person who's right often knows the wrong person's position fully. The right person empathizes, to see where the wrong person is coming from. They've already considered what the wrong person has considered, and know more information on top of that, hence the disagreement.

The wrong person, on the other hand, will be somewhat in the dark. Like the right person, they might try to empathize. But they won't be successful. There will be gaps. They won't fully understand where the right person's coming from. We all like to be the right person. It's better to be right than wrong. That's why the wrong person will instinctively try to write off those aforementioned gaps. They don't see where that person's coming from, but they'll write it off as being not because they themselves know less, but because the other person is crazy/weird/warped/whatever. That's what people convince themselves of. But here's how to tell the difference between a person who's correct and a person who's crazy: The person who's correct, like I said, will know where you're coming from; the person who's crazy will be just in the dark as you are. I'm not in the dark. Can you say the same?
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That was a whole lot of psuedo-psychology to support a troll argument. Keep reaching.
 
Sgt Smith said:
I see you're dedicated to this, but there's far too much speculation. I'm not certain why you are estimating Conor to have as much power in his hands as you do. There is nothing about his past fights that should allow you to extrapolate that he'd be able to KO Dan in one round. That's not going to happen. We are talking about a guy who is legendary for his chin. Conor was rocked by a combo from Nate, who is a great boxer, but not known to sit down on his punches. Conor would need to avoid every shot Dan throws, and he'd bully him into the cage by being the much stronger man and test his chin. It would not go well.
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Precision beats power. That's not just a corny catchphrase. It's not just about the firepower behind the punch. Life isn't like a video game, in which every fighter has a "power" stat and every fighter has a "chin" stat. It's more complicated than that. Aldo was out cold from that little left hand. Conor would land the same sort of strike on Dan. Conor would lead Dan onto his left hand, compounding the power, and he knows how to find the chin. Everyone is capable of being KO'd. Another recent example is Bisping putting Rockhold out with precision, not power. I wouldn't just pick Conor ot beat Dan, on the feet, I'd actually be confident. Add in the wrestling element and my confidence isn't so high, but I'd pick Conor. And the betting line would reflect the competitive nature of the fight.

So, am I simply wrong, or must I be an idiot/crazy/blind Conor nuthugger?
 
johncola said:
Precision beats power. That's not just a corny catchphrase. It's not just about the firepower behind the punch. Life isn't like a video game, in which every fighter has a "power" stat and every fighter has a "chin" stat. It's more complicated than that. Aldo was out cold from that little left hand. Conor would land the same sort of strike on Dan. Conor would lead Dan onto his left hand, compounding the power, and he knows how to find the chin. Everyone is capable of being KO'd. Another recent example is Bisping putting Rockhold out with precision, not power. I wouldn't just pick Conor ot beat Dan, on the feet, I'd actually be confident. Add in the wrestling element and my confidence isn't so high, but I'd pick Conor. And the betting line would reflect the competitive nature of the fight.

So, am I simply wrong, or must I be an idiot/crazy/blind Conor nuthugger?
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There's nothing wrong with having confidence in a fighter you believe in, just a lot of people will disagree with you is all. You're assuming Dan would just be putty in Conor's hands as well. He's a veteran and not nearly that gullible. We'll never know anyway, because this fight will not occur.
 
Sgt Smith said:
There's nothing wrong with having confidence in a fighter you believe in, just a lot of people will disagree with you is all. You're assuming Dan would just be putty in Conor's hands as well. He's a veteran and not nearly that gullible. We'll never know anyway, because this fight will not occur.
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It probably won't. For starters, I think Bisping beats Hendo. And Conor/Nate could go either way. But it's definitely within the realm of possibility if Conor and Dan both win. You think Conor himself thinks he might win the fight? And is it something you could see him angling for? I think the answer is yes to both questions.
 
Th3PlainTruth** said:
Your brain my not be able to comprehend this, but really i dont give a fuck. this is sherdog. Not an intelligence contest.
One more time, its fucking sherdog.
Really...you thinking im not as intellectually brilliant as you are is hilarious. I could give two shits if you died right after reading this post.

Posting on sherdog, is not that serious. But i guess you think it is...being that sherdog is an "intellectual" forum....lol....keep posting!
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I think you do give a fuck. There's multiple signs.

First, nobody asked whether you give a fuck. Yet, you felt compelled to share with the world that you don't. You specifically changed the subject just to let us know.

Second, you're emotional. That's the opposite of not giving a shit. You're talking about not caring if I die :(, lolling frequently, and literally exclaiming things (with exclamation marks!!!!)

Third, people generally have motive to pretend not to care. It presents an illusion that they're above the issue. You are people.

Fourth, pretending not to care is a common occurrence. You yourself must have witnessed people doing this?

Like I said, I'm not trying to belittle you. Don't forget that you're the one who entered my thread and opened the dialogue between us with this:
Th3PlainTruth** said:
Im considering quitting sherdog.

This post is......awe inspiring dumb as FUCK!
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You started us on this subject of who is and who isn't intelligent, or dumb as FUCK, as you put it. You've yet to actually comment on my thread. I'd like to hear your fight breakdown.
 
johncola said:
I think you do give a fuck. There's multiple signs.

First, nobody asked whether you give a fuck. Yet, you felt compelled to share with the world that you don't. You specifically changed the subject just to let us know.

Second, you're emotional. That's the opposite of not giving a shit. You're talking about not caring if I die :(, lolling frequently, and literally exclaiming things (with exclamation marks!!!!)

Third, people generally have motive to pretend not to care. It presents an illusion that they're above the issue. You are people.

Fourth, pretending not to care is a common occurrence. You yourself must have witnessed people doing this?

Like I said, I'm not trying to belittle you. Don't forget that you're the one who entered my thread and opened the dialogue between us with this:

You started us on this subject of who is and who isn't intelligent, or dumb as FUCK, as you put it. You've yet to actually comment on my thread. I'd like to hear your fight breakdown.
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johncola said:
So there's less than a 10% chance of Conor KOing a 46-year-old slow and basic Dan Henderson with a reach disadvantage? I would say you're the delusional one here, but it might simply be a symptom of your lack of MMA knowledge.

Also, don't answer a question with a question. And don't answer another question with nothing at all.
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spit them irish balls out yer mouth when you speak to me son. how dare you reply to me with balls in mouth!
 
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