If American football didn’t exist

[panamaican]

Baseball's decline is somewhat exagerrated. After the Mitchell Report in 2007, the MLB decided to do everything it could to avoid controversy, unlike the NFL and NBA, which almost lean into that sort of thing because "all press is good press". It means baseball is less "tasty" for the media, but participation and attendance are still huge.
Total MLB attendance in 2019 was actually higher than it was at any point before 1993.

But we're not talking about attendance. We're talking about youth athlete participation. Particularly, participation by athletes who grow up in the country.

Youth participation in baseball underwent a significant decline over the last 30 years. Then when the NFL started getting bad concussion press, youth participation started climbing back up. The fall and subsequent rise of youth baseball participation is a very good parallel for the "what would athletes do" conversation that surrounds soccer. When the best athletes started playing more football than baseball as kids, MLB had to start recruiting more and more players from outside the nation (most Central America and the Caribean). When the NFL started losing some of those youth players - baseball and soccer started getting them.

That has nothing to do with adult attendance to adult games, it's specifically about the allocation of the youth athletes from which the future professionals will arise. Soccer and baseball get more participants, some of whom will develop into elite participants in those sports instead of elite participants in football.

Overall, participation in high school sports has surged from less than 4 million student athletes in 2001 to almost 4.6 million last year, researchers report in JAMA Pediatrics. But participation in football peaked in 2008 at 1.11 million athletes, and then declined almost 5 percent to 1.06 million players by 2017.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-football-amid-concussion-fears-idUSKCN1GO2LY

More kids playing high school sports but a decline in football players - they're going to baseball, soccer, etc.

 

[Madmick]

The most important events in swimming are the men's individual long course freestyle events, America holds 0 of the 6 world records in these events.

Those are the least prestigious events in swimming, because those aren't even true long distance swims, but you don't know anything about swimming, so of course you didn't know that. You also didn't know people especially don't care about those records because they're held by a disgraced Chinese blood doper who was banned for the rest of his life from the sport.

 

[Elzio Dennick]

Bolt played soccer his entire life and at 32 years old, failed trials for a team currently ranked 561st in the world; the equivalent of a NCAA Division III football team. He joins Michael Jordan as another "Greatest Athlete Ever" who absolutely sucked at their second sport.
Soccer nations utterly dominate track and field, holding 18 of the 24 major men's outdoor records, that's 75%!
If you look at the men's 4x100 relay at the Olympics/Worlds, soccer nations have won 10 of the last 11 golds!
Of the top 40 countries with the most number of black people, the US is the only one in which soccer isn't the most popular sport.
Also, rugby is popular in South Africa, Kenya, France and the UK, which between them have more blacks than North America yet blacks don't dominate rugby... and before you say "South Africans and Kenyans aren't the same kind of blacks!" Swahilis, Zulus and Xhosa are Atlantic-Congo peoples, just like the ancestors of North American blacks.

Most widely spoken "native" black African languages and their linguistic family in brackets:

1. 98.3m - Swahili (Atlantic-Congo)
2. 63.4m - Hausa (Chadic)
3. 39.8m - Yoruba (Atlantic-Congo)
4. 31.9m - Sudanese (Semitic)
5. 27.8m - Zulu (Atlantic-Congo)
6. 27m - Igbo (Atlantic-Congo)
7. 25.9m - Amharic (Semitic)
8. 19.2m - Xhosa (Atlantic-Congo)
9. 16.3m - Somali (Cushitic)
10. 14.5m - Fula (Atlantic-Congo)
11. 14.1m - Bambara (Mande)

I've noticed that Americans have now abandoned LeBron James and Russell Westbrook as examples of their superior athleticism, since they're too busy being dominated by foreign soccer rejects Giannis, Jokic and Embiid!

NFL players are getting concussions, broken bones and torn ligaments for significantly less money than soccer players are getting for light bruises.

Best NFL combine performances ever, by position:
DT - Kristjan Sokoli (Albanian)
WR - Moritz Boehringer (German)
RB - Justin Fargas (Puerto Rican/Trinidadian)
DE - Brian Johnston (Anglo)
S - Brian Khoury (Arab)
LB - Luke Kuechly (German)
G - Evan Mathis (French)
OT - Spencer Brown (Anglo)
TE - Anthony Becht (German)
QB - Marcus Mariota (Samoan/German)
C - Creed Humphrey (Anglo)

That was weak, you obviously have no clue what would happen if little black kids here in America grew up playing soccer and rugby.

And only Jamaica compares to the USA when talking world class sprinting.

Never been an Olympic sprinter who came from soccer and rugby, TONS were football players.

 

[codfather]

That was weak, you obviously have no clue what would happen if little black kids here in America grew up playing soccer and rugby.

And only Jamaica compares to the USA when talking world class sprinting.

Never been an Olympic sprinter who came from soccer and rugby, TONS were football players.

Soccer is the most popular sport in Jamaica, and they're currently ranked 59th in the world by FIFA, that's below soccer gods Canada, who are ranked 51st.
Jamaica also don't produce many great players in their 2nd sport, cricket.

Adam Gemili is a 4x100m world champion, and his PB is faster than every NFL player ever, except Jim Hines, but he was rejected from the youth team of Reading, who are currently ranked the 321st best soccer team in the world. That's equivalent to NCAA Division II football.

Darren Campbell (soccer), Trae Williams (rugby) and Edward Osei-Nketia (rugby) were also world-class sprinters, with faster PBs than any current NFL player.

 

[Elzio Dennick]

Soccer is the most popular sport in Jamaica, and they're currently ranked 59th in the world by FIFA, that's below soccer gods Canada, who are ranked 51st.
Jamaica also don't produce many great players in their 2nd sport, cricket.

Adam Gemili is a 4x100m world champion, and his PB is faster than every NFL player ever, except Jim Hines, but he was rejected from the youth team of Reading, who are currently ranked the 321st best soccer team in the world. That's equivalent to NCAA Division II football.

Darren Campbell (soccer), Trae Williams (rugby) and Edward Osei-Nketia (rugby) were also world-class sprinters, with faster PBs than any current NFL player.

Williams has a 10.10PR, NKetia 10.12, you have any idea at all how many NFLers have ran faster than that?

Dude, you are cherry picking a couple/a few don't you get 20 Olympic sprinters have played pro football? TONS of fast guys have played football, TONS as you name a few/

Those at sub10.10 and faster

Anthony Schwartz
Bob Hayes
Ron Brown
Wilie Gault
Curtis Dickey
Sam Graddy
Jacoby Ford
Trindon Holliday
Alvis Whitted
Darrell Green

WR 9,1 100 yards Wilie McGee
WR 9,2 Frank Budd

TONS at sub 10,30 TONS

Give it up rookie, ok?

 

[codfather]

Williams has a 10.10PR, NKetia 10.12, you have any idea at all how many NFLers have ran faster than that?

Dude, you are cherry picking a couple/a few don't you get 20 Olympic sprinters have played pro football? TONS of fast guys have played football, TONS as you name a few/

Those at sub10.10 and faster

Anthony Schwartz
Bob Hayes
Ron Brown
Wilie Gault
Curtis Dickey
Sam Graddy
Jacoby Ford
Trindon Holliday
Alvis Whitted
Darrell Green

WR 9,1 100 yards Wilie McGee
WR 9,2 Frank Budd

TONS at sub 10,30 TONS

Give it up rookie, ok?

Schwartz is the only guy on that list currently in the NFL, and he only made his debut last month, so I apologize for my NFL knowledge being one month out of date.
Besides, there are more people that look like Schwartz in Brazil than America.

Here he is wearing an Mbappe jersey...




Here he is wearing a Ronaldo jersey...



Both of these photos are from within the last month, but I guess America's top athletes don't care about soccer.

The point remains; Gemili and Campbell are faster than any current NFL player.
Plus, you never addressed the fact that the top NFL combine performers aren't African-American.

 

[Elzio Dennick]

Schwartz is the only guy on that list currently in the NFL, and he only made his debut last month, so I apologize for my NFL knowledge being one month out of date.
Besides, there are more people that look like Schwartz in Brazil than America.

Here he is wearing an Mbappe jersey...


Here he is wearing a Ronaldo jersey...


Both of these photos are from within the last month, but I guess America's top athletes don't care about soccer.

The point remains; Gemili and Campbell are faster than any current NFL player.
Plus, you never addressed the fact that the top NFL combine performers aren't African-American.

Dude, why try and pass Gemili and Campbell off as legit soccer players when ya know that really isn't true?

You simply aren't getting this at all.

Right now today, the NFL has...

Devin Duvernay
Marquize Goodwin...Olympic long jump/10.08
Tyreek Hill
Javelin Guidry

Google those track studs.

There have been a dozen pro footballers run on world record 4x1 teams, how many soccer/rugby can say that?

And not sure what your point is about the combine, it can't be speed.

Soccer and rugby have a couple fast guys while football has had TONS and TONS. What about that aren't you getting?

Here is that Raiders 4x1 relay

Jacoby Ford 10.01
Alvis Whited 10.07
Ron Brown 10.06 Olympian
Sam Graddy 10.09 Olympian

Hell their B team

Willie Gault 10.10
Cliff Branch 9.2 yards
James Trapp 10.14
James Jett 10.16 Olympian

Match that, come on...

 

[codfather]

Dude, why try and pass Gemili and Campbell off as legit soccer players when ya know that really isn't true?

You simply aren't getting this at all.

Right now today, the NFL has...

Devin Duvernay
Marquize Goodwin...Olympic long jump/10.08
Tyreek Hill
Javelin Guidry

Google those track studs.

There have been a dozen pro footballers run on world record 4x1 teams, how many soccer/rugby can say that?

And not sure what your point is about the combine, it can't be speed.

Soccer and rugby have a couple fast guys while football has had TONS and TONS. What about that aren't you getting?

Here is that Raiders 4x1 relay

Jacoby Ford 10.01
Alvis Whited 10.07
Ron Brown 10.06 Olympian
Sam Graddy 10.09 Olympian

Hell their B team

Willie Gault 10.10
Cliff Branch 9.2 yards
James Trapp 10.14
James Jett 10.16 Olympian

Match that, come on...

List all of the NFL players who've won gold in the athletics world championships/Olympics.

Gemili and Campbell weren't legit soccer players, BECAUSE SPEED COULDN'T SAVE THEM, even at an astonishingly low level.
You claimed that Americans would dominate soccer based on their speed.

Devin Duerveny: 10.19
Tyreek Hill: 10.27
Javelin Guidry: 10.34
Marquise Goodwin: 10.38

...LOL. Even American rugby player Carlin Isles ran a 10.15, and he isn't considered a top 50 player, neither are Trae Williams or Edward Osei-Nketia, for that matter.

 

[Elzio Dennick]

List all of the NFL players who've won gold in the athletics world championships/Olympics.

Gemili and Campbell weren't legit soccer players, BECAUSE SPEED COULDN'T SAVE THEM, even at an astonishingly low level.
You claimed that Americans would dominate soccer based on their speed.

Devin Duerveny: 10.19
Tyreek Hill: 10.27
Javelin Guidry: 10.34
Marquise Goodwin: 10.38

...LOL. Even American rugby player Carlin Isles ran a 10.15, and he isn't considered a top 100 player, neither are Trae Williams or Edward Osei-Nketia, for that matter.

Tyreek Hill ran a 10.19 in high school
Goodwin a 10.08 guy

What you aren't getting is if there we no football as kids all those would be footballers ar now growing up ss soccer/rugby ites.

Dude stop with the nonsense, ok?

Olympic sprinters who played pro football

Gerald Tinker
Larry Burton
Henry Carr
Michael Bates
Ron Brown
Frank Budd
Ray Norton
Sam Graddy
Bob Hayes
Trenton Jackson
Stone Johnson
Willie Gault
Johnny Johnson
Ollie Matson
Jeff Demps
James Jett

What about that aren't you getting?

Now add all those 10.2ish/9.3 guys which is a ton

Give me three more fast soccer/rugby ites, yep, ya can't because there aren't any.

Here ya go...

Travis Williams 9.3
Mel Gray 9.2
JD Hill 9.3
Isacc Curtis 9.3
Willie McGee 9.1
Cliff Branch 9.2
Henry Carr 9.3
Homer Jones 9.3
Curtis Dickey 9.2


100 yard guys

Hell.....

Jamaal Charles 10.18
Michael Bennett 10.18
Sammie Parker 10.17
James Trapp 10.14
Darrel Green 10.08
Alvis Whitted 10.07

 

[PHATV]

Pardon me, I've just stumbled upon the thread and I'm still trying to reel this in.

Are you telling me they have men's soccer, now!?

 

[Madmick]

Tyreek Hill ran a 10.19 in high school
Goodwin a 10.08 guy

What you aren't getting is if there we no football as kids all those would be footballers ar now growing up ss soccer/rugby ites.

Dude stop with the nonsense, ok?

Olympic sprinters who played pro football

Gerald Tinker
Larry Burton
Henry Carr
Michael Bates
Ron Brown
Frank Budd
Ray Norton
Sam Graddy
Bob Hayes
Trenton Jackson
Stone Johnson
Willie Gault
Johnny Johnson
Ollie Matson
Jeff Demps
James Jett

What about that aren't you getting?

Now add all those 10.2ish/9.3 guys which is a ton

Give me three more fast soccer/rugby ites, yep, ya can't because there aren't any.

Here ya go...

Travis Williams 9.3
Mel Gray 9.2
JD Hill 9.3
Isacc Curtis 9.3
Willie McGee 9.1
Cliff Branch 9.2
Henry Carr 9.3
Homer Jones 9.3
Curtis Dickey 9.2


100 yard guys

Hell.....

Jamaal Charles 10.18
Michael Bennett 10.18
Sammie Parker 10.17
James Trapp 10.14
Darrel Green 10.08
Alvis Whitted 10.07

You went in deeper than Christiano Ronaldo's vertical leap: 28"! Soccer fans find this so impressive they make YouTube videos with live exhibitions outside their stadiums.


And, no, it wasn't the grass or the fatigue or the fact he wasn't focused on purely jumping. His recorded lab test in 2014 with SS was a 30" max vertical leap. They lose their minds over this.

 

[codfather]

You went in deeper than Christiano Ronaldo's vertical leap: 28"! Soccer fans find this so impressive they make YouTube videos with live exhibitions outside their stadiums.


And, no, it wasn't the grass or the fatigue or the fact he wasn't focused on purely jumping. His recorded lab test in 2014 with SS was a 30" max vertical leap. They lose their minds over this.

If Ronaldo had jumped higher, the contact angle would be wrong and he wouldn't have scored.
It isn't impressive because of the height, it's impressive because of the poise required to accurately direct a fast-moving, relatively high ball, in the exact spot where a man who's paid millions of dollars a year to stop that exact thing, can't do anything.

The lab-tested leap was in cleats, with hands-on-hips, on a force platform, which is impossible to fraud.
You can easily fraud your vertical on a vertec, just by pretending your standing reach is shorter than it actually is. The tester has no real way of knowing whether you're a full-stretch or not.

I never got this argument anyway:
"Americans would dominate soccer with their athleticism."
"The 2nd best player of his generation is a mediocre athlete."

...then obviously athleticism isn't that important in soccer, and 40 yard dash times and vertical leaps are pretty much irrelevant to soccer success.

 

[codfather]

Even in basketball, none of the top vertical leapers in NBA draft combine history have had great careers. It obviously isn't that important to the sport.

Interestingly, joint-2nd highest max vertical leap in NBA draft combine history is Hamidou Diallo, who's parents are Guinean, and soccer is easily the most popular sport in Guinea, but they're currently ranked 76th in the world by FIFA.

 

[codfather]

Pardon me, I've just stumbled upon the thread and I'm still trying to reel this in.

Are you telling me they have men's soccer, now!?

Yes; it's more popular than football, basketball, baseball and ice hockey combined.

 

[codfather]

Tyreek Hill ran a 10.19 in high school
Goodwin a 10.08 guy

What you aren't getting is if there we no football as kids all those would be footballers ar now growing up ss soccer/rugby ites.

Dude stop with the nonsense, ok?

Olympic sprinters who played pro football

Gerald Tinker
Larry Burton
Henry Carr
Michael Bates
Ron Brown
Frank Budd
Ray Norton
Sam Graddy
Bob Hayes
Trenton Jackson
Stone Johnson
Willie Gault
Johnny Johnson
Ollie Matson
Jeff Demps
James Jett

What about that aren't you getting?

Now add all those 10.2ish/9.3 guys which is a ton

Give me three more fast soccer/rugby ites, yep, ya can't because there aren't any.

Here ya go...

Travis Williams 9.3
Mel Gray 9.2
JD Hill 9.3
Isacc Curtis 9.3
Willie McGee 9.1
Cliff Branch 9.2
Henry Carr 9.3
Homer Jones 9.3
Curtis Dickey 9.2


100 yard guys

Hell.....

Jamaal Charles 10.18
Michael Bennett 10.18
Sammie Parker 10.17
James Trapp 10.14
Darrel Green 10.08
Alvis Whitted 10.07

Other countries don't even use yards as a system of measurement!
It's like claiming Iranians are the best athletes, since they have all the best 1 parasang runners.

 

[Madmick]

If Ronaldo had jumped higher, the contact angle would be wrong and he wouldn't have scored.

The lab-tested leap was in cleats, with hands-on-hips, on a force platform, which is impossible to fraud.
You can easily fraud your vertical on a vertec, just by pretending your standing reach is shorter than it actually is. The tester has no real way of knowing whether you're a full-stretch or not.

I never got this argument anyway:
"Americans would dominate soccer with their athleticism."
"The 2nd best player of his generation is a mediocre athlete."

...then obviously athleticism isn't that important in soccer, and 40 yard dash times and vertical leaps are pretty much irrelevant to soccer success.

"The lab test was impossible to fraud", LMFAO. Nobody is cheating the NBA or NFL Combine.

Also, no, he didn't get 30in with his hands on hips. He got a measly 44cm with that method (17"). For his higher figure he was given multiple steps. This is a max vertical leap test-- not even a countermovement test.


Also, I love how even the narrator in the video pulls the comment out of his ass that Ronaldo's vert is higher than the average NBA player. That's laughable. You see this shit all over the internet, too, especially on places like Soccer reddits where people are so comically ignorant to strength & conditioning or athleticism (because it isn't really necessary for their sport).

No, in fact, taking the most recent NBA Draft year class, for example, the average max vertical leap was 36.7".

 

[codfather]

"The lab test was impossible to fraud", LMFAO. Nobody is cheating the NBA or NFL Combine.

Also, no, he didn't get 30in with his hands on hips. He got a measly 44cm with that method (17"). For his higher figure he was given multiple steps. This is a max vertical leap test-- not even a countermovement test.


Also, I love how even the narrator in the video pulls the comment out of his ass that Ronaldo's vert is higher than the average NBA player. That's laughable. You see this shit all over the internet, too, especially on places like Soccer reddits where people are so comically ignorant to strength & conditioning or athleticism (because it isn't really necessary for their sport).

No, in fact, taking the most recent NBA Draft year class, for example, the average max vertical leap was 36.7".

4 of the top 5 high jumpers of all-time come from countries where soccer is the most popular sport, and all 5 come from countries where soccer is more popular than American football, basketball and ice hockey.

 

[Madmick]

4 of the top 5 high jumpers of all-time come from countries where soccer is the most popular sport, and all 5 come from countries where soccer is more popular than American football, basketball and ice hockey.

A perfect demonstration of the fact that when soccer is there to suck up all the untalented individuals in a country, the talent becomes more concentrated in track & field.

 

[codfather]

A perfect demonstration of the fact that when soccer is there to suck up all the untalented individuals in a country, the talent becomes more concentrated in track & field.

Remember when soccer reject Christian Okoye led the NFL in rushing yards, despite not playing football until age 23?
Do you honestly believe the equivalent could ever happen the other way around?
Like let's say somebody plays football their entire life, but fails to even make a Div III team, they then pick up soccer at 23 years old and end up leading the Champions League in goals. It's utterly absurd.

Pro bowl soccer rejects from recent years:

Danielle Hunter (DE) - Jamaica

Jay Ajayi (RB) - UK

Ezekiel Ansah (DE) - Ghana

Jerome Felton (RB) - Germany

Tamba Hali (DE) - Liberia

Osi Umenyiora (DE) - UK

 

[Madmick]

Remember when soccer reject Christian Okoye led the NFL in rushing yards, despite not playing football until age 23?
Do you honestly believe the equivalent could ever happen the other way around?
Like let's say somebody plays football their entire life, but fails to even make a Div III team, they then pick up soccer at 23 years old and end up leading the Champions League in goals. It's utterly absurd.

Pro bowl soccer rejects from recent years:

Danielle Hunter (DE) - Jamaica

Jay Ajayi (RB) - UK

Ezekiel Ansah (DE) - Ghana

Jerome Felton (RB) - Germany

Mike Jenkins (DB) - Germany

Tamba Hali (DE) - Liberia

Osi Umenyiora (DE) - UK

Oh, "football rejects" (which is a meaningless term that could be ascribed to anyone who played the sport at any level) would utterly dominate soccer if any of them cared to try it. But football is played almost exclusively by Americans and Canadians, and so those who abandon pursuit of a career in other sports aren't bled to soccer because nobody cares about a B-athlete sport like that over here.

Okoye is a strange example. He was a track star. He was too athletic to put any serious effort into pursuing a career in soccer. Of course he ascended to the NFL.